E1 and Influx, good or bad?

Subject: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:17 pm

k since Roamer had the brilliant idea of starting a topic on the influx and E1/JG guns here it is (thanks buddy for the idea i didnt even think of it).

when i first started
k well i dont know if any of you (Maybe Seabass, i dont know how long you all have been playing) played the game competitively before the days of Echo 1 and Jing Gong, but back then it was either you had a Marui, or a CA (ICS was having some quality control and normal quirks in their guns so many people didnt choose them, however there were a few of them on the field at this time). and even worse CA prices were in the 300-350 range for a basic M4/M16, Marui had just lowered their prices to the ones they have today when i bought my M4 (V1 M4, i forget if their on V2 or V3 now but you get the idea). CA was just being accepted as a RELIABLE replica(they had been having some major reliability problems before). and most of the time a CA might get $30 worth of upgrades (new spring/shims was what was being done mostly), whereas most people bought TM's with the idea that they would put hundreds into them (or keep them stock for CQB). which ever one someone got they knew they were getting a replica that would last.

LPEG crap Age
k now all the sudden people were popping up on the forums saying that their Well R6 could beat a Marui any day. they were obviously wrong or else everyone would have a Well at the moment. this angered many of the vets and the N00Bs who had spent their money on a quality replica (me included), so in time people just ignored these posts or banned certain users that were starting these threads. there were only crappy LPEGS that costed $50-$100 a piece(at the time an unbelievable price considering most replicas were $250-$300 as stated before). when people with Well's did show up to the field thy got their A**es handed to them so soon we just ignored the idea of something costing lower than a Marui coming anytime soon(unless they or CA lowered their prices).

the birth of Echo 1 and Jing Gong
it had been a couple of months since we had herd from any of the clone lovers, when someone posted a link to airsoftgi.com that showed a company called Jing Gong. no one had herd of them before. Nautraly we all just excused this as just another clone company. but something was different about JG, they seemed to be Fully compatible with TM parts... we had herd of some clones that we supposedly compatible partially (all these miths had been proven incorrect) so again we threw this off as just another clone. but one thing did catch our eye...... these guns supposedly chronoed at 350FPS, this was herd of but airsoftgi.com was a reliable seller that had been tried and proven FPS wise. some other sites had put other LPEGS supposedly at this FPS range, but again we figured out that sites like airsplat.com (yes they used to bee worse than most sites) shortyusa.com , speedytoys.com , etc etc chronoed their LPEGS with .12 gram BB's(there wasnt the term MPEG back then because there were no low cost semi quality replicas to speak of, thats why i say LPEG). a few of the hardcore players started to but these to see what they could take(this was common practice, a vet would but an LPEG and beat the crap out of it in a game and see if it could take the abuse that a TM, or a CA could take). when astounded vets would come back with whole guns we all started to pay attention to these so called MPEGS. then Echo 1 came out, and these also had a upgraded mechbox build to withstand a 350 FPS spring. but alot of the N00Bs with JG started to spread rumors that JG and E1 were the same, they said the only difference was that Echo 1 re branded JG and distributed them to America with their name on the box(at the time there was nothing to tell that they were lying so we believed them for awhile). then one day one someone took apart an Echo 1 and a JG and compared the parts. he found that Echo 1 had higher quality parts and a slightly weaker spring. we also figured out that the only similarity between the two was the fact that they were made in the same factories, but Echo 1 used higher quality metals/plastics in the molds than JG did. NOTE: ICS were becoming the Very reliable replica that they are today. ANOTHER NOTE: sniper rifles were now being mass produced into replicas like the UTG shadow ops, or the JG BAR10. many of you i assume started airsoft around this peroid.

k history lesson is over now i will tell you why i wrote the above and wasted 30+ mins of my life Laughing

now here comes the real question. Echo 1 and JG caused a HUGE influx that the airsoft world had never seen before. many of you on this forum are part of that influx. now i understand that many of you will be biased to the influx/Echo 1 side because you are part of it... but is a huge influx good for the game or not. dont just think about this in the games perspective but also the types of crimes that can be committed by these new easily accessible and most of all Cheap weapons. will there be more kids getting shot by a cop that thinks he is being threatened by an assault rifle armed kid, or are more people going to try to rob banks with these. now look at the good side, many of the kids that were previously being told to save a couple hundred and buy a Marui or CA are now being told to buy an E1 or JG get a couple mags and some cheap china gear. this means that there are more and more people showing up to the fields with the gear to compete.

im currently undecided on this because ive recommended E1's to some of my life long friends and other players. the influx has brought about more N00Bs than a free online Halo torny but is that a bad thing? i like the challenge, but most of these people are too cocky to listen to some of the vets and learn how to play the game well. again i want to know what you all think about this, im undeceided and i want to hear from some of the players on here that are a part of the influx. it would be nice to hear some different sides of the story.

thanks for reading, have fun with this one....... big shouts out to Roamer for giving me the idea

sticks

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:50 am

Wow. What a post. Thank you for taking the time to share all that with us. It seems rather historically accurate as well. I see your dilemma, and it's a hard one to decide one way or the other on. On one hand, it gives quality players like Roamer, Ace, DK, and smalls (a few of our Echo 1 carrying members) a quality gun for a low price. These guys would most likely not have gotten into more serious airsofting if it weren't for these mpegs with quality performance.

At the same time, it gives the irresponsible players, those who get a $150 birthday spending limit and decide to get an E1, the opportunity to play with the quality players - and it makes for a bad time... as most of you have probably experienced first hand. It's terribly annoying, but is it worth it, is the question. I would probably lean more towards yes.

Here's why:
I've seen many of my teammates using Echo 1s repeatedly take out other players using high-end CA and TM guns. Why? Maybe a little luck, but mostly because they're just that good. They think on their feet, use teamwork, and are very tactical. It has little to do with the gun, just the fact that they're smart players and they're carrying guns that won't crap out on them and will give them decent performance.

However, you give the same gun to a kid who doesn't listen, doesn't work with the team, isn't all that intelligent/tactical, and you've got a fairly easy target. You put them up against someone carrying a CA or TM, and they won't stand a chance! They'll be terrible players and will only continue playing awfully until they 1 - start playing smarter or 2 - realize the sport is not for them and drop out. So I think these annoying airsofters with the Echo 1s will always be there, but they'll sort of naturally weed themselves out. Although these players are annoying, I refuse to let them ruin the game for me, and it's worth allowing players like the ones mentioned previously to enjoy the serious competition along with the CA and TM carriers Smile

Great post!

EDIT: Oh, and about the kids getting shot by a cop comment. It's a very unfortunate scenario, but it really comes down to the irresponsibility of the kid carrying the gun. Sure the guns look real, but 1 - if he has it out in public it's his responsibility to have an orange tip, 2 - he shouldn't be pointing it at anyone, 3 - he should always do exactly as a cop tells him to and do it quickly, and 4 - don't have the darn thing out in public in the first place! You're just asking for trouble! (I'm obviously not directing that towards you Sticks).

We shouldn't feel negative towards these cheaper, realistic replicas, but be against these kids who are wrongfully using them. It's not the cheapness of the gun, because there are idiots who still pay the $350 for a CA or TM. That's like saying we should dislike an influx of cars under $40,000 because anyone who can't afford a $40,000 car is too high risk to be allowed to drive one anyway. And those who can afford the $40,000 are automatically smart enough to use one.

Does that makes sense? It's late and I'm tired lol. If not I'll fix it tomorrow Smile

Admin
_________________
Never hesitate to PM me or one of my mods if you have any questions or issues!
Team Juggernauts: Logan, Ohio

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:18 am

I have to say that the goods out number the bad. If it weren't for these companies I wouldn't be in airsoft right now.
_________________
The (not so) Lone Fox is Out

Hey got a question just throw me a PM (unless it is about the Bar 10 ...that word makes me shiver)

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:34 am

I see your guy's points there... like you guys for many of my friends Echo 1 was and is the only way to get into the game.. had my dad not worked with someone who played competitively I probably would not have been able to buy a $250 gun plus battery's and mags (total came out to $312 for my first gun, i still have the recite).

but believe it or not the Echo line also killed an aspect of the game that unfortunately none of you knew. it was that everyone was nice to the N00Bs, they would even let some of the run with their squads. i ran ran with the core element of SPEAR before they were SPEAR, which was a really nice thing for them to do. i ran with them for 2 years then last year they turned into SPEAR, after that i got to run Al Najaf with them and then my brother and his friends started to play.
now many of the Teams dont or are afraid to accept N00Bs to run with them for a game of 2. i think its really sad but i can understand why they did this, its because when someone who no one knows shows up on the field with an Echo1 everyone is afraid that they are the ones who do nothing but cheat and try to be as annoying as possible (this has happened in the past and i know it is a small percent but the vet/novice airsoft community is afraid of something like this happening again.) and when someone does this while they are playing with a team then the team gets the bad credit along with the kid who is being anoying.

im still neutral on this topic so i need to hear some more sides of the story. thanks for all the replies, oh and i promise to not put any more history lessons in here. Laughing

sticks

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:34 pm

I actually like the history lessons Sticks. Very interesting topics. It's just too unfortunate that a few can ruin it for the majority. But I guess you see that everywhere you go, not just with airsoft. I guess the best we can do is try and straighten them out on the field (no matter how hard that is), try to include them on things (they try to be less annoying when they feel included), and try to inform them of "airsoft etiquette" on things like these forums. But, of course, this'll only work on a select few. The others, we just need to avoid Smile

_________________
Never hesitate to PM me or one of my mods if you have any questions or issues!
Team Juggernauts: Logan, Ohio

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:26 pm

Wow, when I asked for your thoughts I honeslty didn't expect this. I think the quality of your post here really show how much you care about the sport and how much of a vet you are. VERY NICE.

In response.
I think it is a good thing if you would allow me to try to explain why. I think if it were not for vets like yourself it would be horrible. Honestly you care enough about the sport to help the NOOB's out. You also care enough about the sport to not let it be trashed by those same NOOBs.
I don't think it is too fair to say that the influx is directly responsible for the birth of these self-centered/arrogant NOOBs. I think it brougth a whole bunch on ppl. into the sport (which is great) some good... and some unfortunetly are going to be bad additions to the sport. It falls upon anybody who would consider themselves advocates (vets) of the sport to weed these bad ones out and bring the good ones up. You obviously don't dismiss them all as crap, you help new comers out.

Very nice article, thanks for posting. I hope we can reach some higher understanding of this situation through this thread.

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:02 pm

i also think that this kind of cycle should and probably will keep happening. there will be a new brand of gun that comes out that everybody brushes off as something that is a bad gun, but when they actually try it out it turns out to be a good gun. i realize this is a slightly vague post, but if you think about it, it seems likely to happen.
_________________
theres really nothing like being lit up from ten feet away by a high powered rifle......

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:18 pm

lol i dont consider myself a Vet, but thanks for the compliment.

when the people that i run with actually decide to make a team, i think we might be bringing back the whole find a N00B that doesnt know anyone and let them run with you thing. i think it will bring back at least some of the old days, and it will prob reduce the amount of trouble makers.

Ragnorok: i dont think there will be to many companies that out of the blue pop up and are good. but there will be alot more companies that like CA have over time become a reliable replica.

keep the replies coming

sticks

Subject: Re: E1 and Influx, good or bad? Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:28 pm

i consider you more vet than me sticks Very Happy

_________________
theres really nothing like being lit up from ten feet away by a high powered rifle......