Case example from airsoftgi.com

Subject: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:20 am

Please note that the title of this thread has been changed to better reflect the actually conversation and in hopes of directing any persons having a desire to view it or information to add to it. Please feel free to give your unaltered opinions. Thank You.
-Roamer

I will leave names out for now to avoid any bias effects, but I will explain a theoretical situation in which you yourself would buy a brand new gun from a very respected online airsoft retailer.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION NEEDED BEFORE YOU TAKE THE POLL:
You have recently purchased your third AEG from perhaps one of the largest most respected airosft online retailers available. You rush and tear open the box with glee. You slam a previously charged battery right into to that awesome gun of yours and load your new magazine with some high grade BBs. No force in the world large or small could stop now from entering your backyard to antagonize your neighbors with your recent purchase. Your pulse is rushing and your hands are sweeting with anticipation for the reliable burst of energy stemming the barrel... but wait.... whats that noise. Or in this case, the lack there of. You have just received a gun with a broken fuse. Woopy Doo, You buy some more fuses right. Well you sure do, and you blow through 3 more of them before you take a shot. But little do you know, there is more wrong with your gun than just a simple fuse. Sure this is an easy fix but, you refuse to repair a brand new gun and call the retailer.

At the time of purchase you agreed to the retailer's terms of service which clearly stated no returns. The same policies that state that all AEGs are tested before shipped. This is backed by a signed piece of paper stating that your gun actually works just fine. The retailer refuses to exchange or let you return the product. They will however refer you to the manufacturer who then will refer you to return the product if damaged within the first 30 days to the retailer. You now are the proud owner of a BRAND NEW broken gun. CONGRATULATIONS!! Smile

What would you do!?! Please feel free to ask me any questions regarding the hypothetical poll. Also, please read all of the information until you feel you can sufficiently answer the question and post a short reply on why you chose the answer you did.

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:35 am

You said it was an easy fix, so if at all possible, I'd just fix it on my own. If it required parts that cost $5+ I'd negotiate with the retailer to send me those parts for free. This is all assuming the problem isn't a huge one, and that your fixing it is good enough and won't require a more serious fix down the road.

I remember when I first received my CA8-2 there was a loose piece inside that was rattling around and pushing the barrel out of place whenever I'd lay the gun down on a tree or my knee for more accurate shooting. It was terribly annoying and caused my shots to go off course. But instead of calling the retailer I first looked at the internals of the gun to see for myself what was wrong. I found the loose part, simply put electrical tape around the part it was connected to, and the problem was solved. It really was an easy fix, and not a very serious problem.

However that may differ from your problem, but I'd say if it was an easy fix like you say it was, I'd just see what exactly it'd take to fix it. Then if you found it to be an easy, permanent, and inexpensive fix, then do it. Otherwise, I'd say contact the dealer and have them fix it for you. Waiting SUCKS, but it's part of the online airsoft buyers life. I personally don't see anything wrong with a perfectly fine brand-new FIXED gun. If it works like it never had a problem, and looks like it never had a problem, then I'd be perfectly happy with it Smile

But that's just my opinion.

*I will add this though, it's a little fishy that they said they inspected the gun before shipping it out, yet it had a serious enough problem that it wouldn't even shoot when you got it.... weird.
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Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:54 am

Well, the easy fix thing needs a little explaining. I think I allowed for people to change their votes on here so you may want to do that lol
I said easy fix, but I will NOT open up the mechbox while this is being disputed for the simple fact that I shouldn't have to when I ordered a brand new gun. I said easy fix... I just looked as deep as I could without leaving a mark on anything and I couldn't find a bare wire which was the reason I assumed it was blowing fuses right and left. Maybe it is a locked mechbox, but again that isn't my problem and I disagree with you on that one. I think no matter if I was the best AEG smith there is... I shouldn't have to fix a gun that was supposed to be checked before it was shipped and arrived broken. Seeing how the retailer didn't try to guide me through any trouble shooting procedures short of bypassing the fuse (STUPID IDEA) I am done trying to fix a problem that is not my problem to fix.

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:06 pm

I agree that was a stupid idea, and I can't believe they'd even recommend that. But they offered to take back the gun and fix it for you free of charge. I don't see where the problem is...
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Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:33 pm

1: i would buy my gun from a smaller retailer who takes more care with every product that they sell to you(airsoft smith, airsoft arms, combat depot). and i try to stay away from buying guns even if they are a certain fav of yours*cough*echo 1*cough*, and the retailer that you bought from is known for having great customer service *cough*as gi(encoded for popularity reasons)*cough*.

2: i would ask to talk with a manager on the phone about the situation, maybe push the blackmail threat to him. whatever you do do not open up the mechbox. not only will it void the warrantee, but then you will be blamed for purposely breaking the gun.

3: to answer your question i would demand a new gun, and send it back to the company. try to be nice when you talk to the people who work at the store. you probably got a broken gun from them that was in the wrong rack or something like that. be real chill, i know you have a broken gun but it does mean alot when people are just nice to you.

remember this is all coming from someone who had an internship at a store. if they dont comply then look up the owner and email him about your problem, he WILL care and you can be sure that he WILL refund your product. unless he was the one who told you off in the first place.

good luck with this, sorry it happened in the first place

sticks

PS: how did i know what brand AEG you purchased, or what store you bought from...... im majic thats how! Cool

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Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:28 pm

Sticks.13... I love you! lol Seriously, thanks for backing me up on that. All of the steps have already been taken. They refused to let me speak with a manager... and they weren't going to fix the gun... They told me to talk to Echo 1. I have already taken the charges off of my Card... that again meant nothing to them. Yes it is airosftgi.com and it was a CA.... No it was an Echo 1. Thanks for understanding... ADMIN I am still waiting for you to change your position. Remember we have practice here in a few... I also know where you live. Yes both of those were threats. I will poison your big mammas burritos lolol Seriously though, thanks for being honest about it. I don't have time for people feeding me what they think I want to hear.

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:52 pm

what model gun was it?

if you really wanted the owner/manager's email is probably in their forum, or if not try checking the socal forums for it. someone has to have it. have you tried calling back, ive herd that one of their workers was a particular a$$, maybe you will not get him this time.

friggin CA... Laughing

sticks
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Operator: Recoil

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:29 pm

California.... Yeah, maybe I will do some research on that. I asked to speak with a manager every time. Get this, the second time I called I asked for a manager right off the bat and said that the previous guy I spoke to was just fine, but I just wanted to speak with a manager anyway. I didn't remember the guys name right. They put me on hold for about ten minutes and then that same guy answered the phone!!! What the heck. I didn't even give them the guys name. The did that to me 4 times!!!! I asked to speak with a manager and they put the same freakin kid on the line. I was mad!!
Remember this... yeah, that is how long this has been going on. It also answers your question about the model.
http://airsoftforum.darkbb.com/the-lounge-f42/muhuhahaaaaa-i-changed-airsoftgicom-t195.htm

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:19 pm

Refuse to pay. refuse. refuse. refuse.
heck just to ship the gun back to gi or even to echo 1 is gonna be $20-$30. Why should you be the one to have to pay any extra ammount for an issue that is by far the retailer's problem. The only viable solution to this problem is a new (working) gun, shipped to you by the retailer. Then you can return the old one. Retailer postage paid.

DK
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Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:28 pm

if ((you = Roamer) && (gun != new) || (gun != working))

In English...
If you are Roamer and your gun is not new or gun doesn't work, that is not what you intended on purchasing. I believe there is a section on airsoftgi.com for broken/refurbished guns:

http://www.airsoftgi.com/index.php?cPath=30_205

I don't believe Roamer bought one on these. A fixed gun is not a new gun. Would anyone of you buy a new car that didn't work and then have someone fix it. I think not. Just as with any other NEW item you order, it should work. If it doesn't you would return it for a new item of the same thing.

Fixed gun doesn't equal a new gun.

I had posed Roamers question to an employ of another airsoft retailer and they said they would exchange you guns. Wow! Was that so hard?

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:55 pm

I would buy upgraded parts for internals, a new motor and replace anything else that looks out of place. Very Happy

Then again, I spend to much money on airsoft. Twisted Evil

Most likely, there is a bind... possibly the piston isnt in its groove, which in turn wouldnt allow the gears to push it back causing it to blow a fuse. There are other possibilities, but that is a guess. Since I open up all kinds of mechboxes, I wouldnt hesitate to just fix it myself... but seeing as how its new and you probably dont want to spend anymore money on it, I would try to get it repaired free of charge.

Next time, buy this: Very Happy

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Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:09 pm

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:14 pm

No, they didn't offer that! Echo 1 offered that. Echo 1 also says to ship it back to the retailer if you experience a problem within the first 30 days.
http://echo1usa.com/English/index.php?main_page=page&id=4&chapter=0
I am not paying for freakin postage SCREW THEM!

I would never open the mechbox even if I could fix the problem easily while they are arguing with me b/c that would probably ruin the warranty.

We will see how this plays out, but the only people who haven't supported my decisions to this point are right here.

Keep your comments coming, If I ended up doing the wrong thing here then I want to know. Simple truth of the matter is they shipped me a broken gun that they said they tested via a signed document. I thought I was screwed seeing how upon ordering it I agreed to their terms and policies, but a rep. from my card agency reassured me that I did the right thing and that I am protected. He said as soon as they shipped me a broken gun their policies went out the window.

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:05 pm

Sorry no one else is supporting you Roamer.

Isn't the customer always right?

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:01 am

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:13 am

I would have to pay the shipping... so no. After I contacted Echo 1 on the issue they told me personally they would fix it. Their website says that I need to take it back to airsoftgi.com... see for yourself via the link 3 messages up. So they will fix it for free, but as far as paying for shipping I actually don't think airosftgi said anything about that. They just told me to send my gun to Echo 1.
Say they were going to pay for shipping. Why should I? I told them I didn't want a new fixed gun. I heard a stat from Dark Knight that said the longevity of your mechbox is drastically reduced upon opening... just opening it. I ordered a new gun. I don't want a gun that has been fixed. And if I did get the gun fixed I would want some sort of incentive for it... they didn't offer it.
Why should I have went through with that? If you would have thats great, but my name is Roamer for a reason.... lol

Subject: Re: Case example from airsoftgi.com Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:07 am

This sucks, but, they very clearly state that:
"Cost of sending product(s) back to us is not covered in our warranty and return policy."
Does that make it right? Probably not - considering that's probably $20 lost to ship it back. But it's hard to justify complaining when they warn you beforehand what they do and do not cover. I do still consider that free of charge repair though - even with the shipping costs. The actual act of them repairing the gun is free - so technically you could still say that they're repairing it for free.

Also, I'd like to hear more about the longevity of a gearbox being reduced greatly upon opening. Seabass, what are your opinions, seeing as how you've opened up your gearboxes on every single one of your guns at least 20 times, and yet they still seem in great working condition.....?

This whole scenario just seems like this example:
Me personally selling you one of my guns and telling you "the gun should work fine for you, but if it ends up having problems I'll fix it for you for free if you can get it to me, but I won't give you a refund for the gun or replace it with another gun like it." You state that you agree to my terms and then get your gun and for some odd/rare reason it doesn't work. Sure you're upset about the gun, but then you come directly back to me and demand a refund or for me to replace it. I tell you that I specifically stated that I wouldn't refund you your money even if there was a damaged product, but that I'd fix whatever problem there was with the gun itself. But you refuse to accept the already set in stone terms and conditions that you already agree to before making your purchase, and you start bashing me and refuse to accept my terms.

It just doesn't seem right to me..... I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong though. I know it's hard to believe that such an amazing airsofter, athleticly blessed, and good looking guy as myself could be wrong, but it's happened before.
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