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 Why hasn't full body armor taken off?

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Spl. Durkee
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PostSubject: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:04 pm

As the title asks...why hasn't full body armor been deployed?

I don't know the percentages...but I know that many more service members are casualties of limb-hits than they are of center-mass...so why haven't we filled in the gap and protected them more?

Any thoughts? Open forum.
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Zane
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:22 pm

Three reasons
1)Stuff thats out there is to restrictive (you can't move)
2)To heavy (doesnt allow for air to circulate)
3)I hate to say it buy cost cost cost
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Jarhead999 76 65
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:27 pm

They started to go the right way with the IBA, but they didn't build onto it.
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Spl. Durkee
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:
They started to go the right way with the IBA, but they didn't build onto it.

True...
Maybe even just an upper-leg addition would be enough for me.
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iliveforthis99
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:54 pm

Zane wrote:
Three reasons
1)Stuff thats out there is to restrictive (you can't move)
2)To heavy (doesnt allow for air to circulate)
3)I hate to say it buy cost cost cost

Exactly. Even wearing Dragonskin which is the lightest and most flexible out there that i know of, your range of motion is still hampered and you're still getting several more pounds added. I was talking to a former Marine awhile back about this and he completely rejected the idea of full body armor and said he'd refuse to wear anything of the kind. He did not want to loose or hamper more the two things he said that keeps you alive, speed and mobility.

I highly doubt full body protection will ever get past EOD service anytime soon. At the risk of sounding like a nerd powered armor or personal energy shields would be the only practical way to go and then there you fall right back to cost.
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:10 pm

iliveforthis99 wrote:
Zane wrote:
Three reasons
1)Stuff thats out there is to restrictive (you can't move)
2)To heavy (doesnt allow for air to circulate)
3)I hate to say it buy cost cost cost

Exactly. Even wearing Dragonskin which is the lightest and most flexible out there that i know of, your range of motion is still hampered and you're still getting several more pounds added. I was talking to a former Marine awhile back about this and he completely rejected the idea of full body armor and said he'd refuse to wear anything of the kind. He did not want to loose or hamper more the two things he said that keeps you alive, speed and mobility.

I highly doubt full body protection will ever get past EOD service anytime soon. At the risk of sounding like a nerd powered armor or personal energy shields would be the only practical way to go and then there you fall right back to cost.

Dragon skin failed both heat and weathering tests with the army, google it. Basically it spread out when it got hot, which ruined its lifesaving capabilities. I forget what else happened, but it basically failed in heat and the actual design of the PC was a failure as well.

I do agree with the bulky aspect, but also consider this. The Mich 2000 series cannot stop a direct 7.62 round.... I think we need to worry more about the head than the limbs at the moment.

sticks

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Jarhead999 76 65
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:12 pm

Yeah, more and more it seems we are facing snipers who are going for the head now.
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Insane Mercc
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:14 pm

Im no expert but Carbon fiber is said to be Way stronger than steel and if its not too brittle or whatever then you could combine that with a Kevlar weave to make a useful helmet or vest.
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:09 pm

There are realy only a few places to worry about, two, maybe three have been taken care of to some degree--- The chest, The groin, and the head a little. The next thing they need to worry about is the arm pits...I forget what the vain,,or is it a artery..there is called but insurgent sharp shooters are trained to shoot there, if they are able to hit there the soldier will die if he doesnt get to a ER VERY fast, the severed vain retracts into the body and it is very difucult to reach and clamp on the field.


A while back popular mechanics showcased some power suits that were being considered by the Army that seemed promising, but agian it comes down to cost and weight.

Theres also been some promising work done on a impact gel that hardens when hit stopping a bullet in its path, a side bonus is this works agianst knive attacks as well which current kevlar vests do not.
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:53 am

if they shoot the armpit from the side it basically goes from left to right or vice versa straight through your heart or any other major organs.
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:12 pm

I know one of the reasons that the body armor only covers the chest is because theyre made for like entering rooms and stuff and when your moving fast the person shooting at you instinctively tries to shoot at the largest part of your body, so thats one of the reasons for that. I don't think it would be good to have a vest over your upper legs because you wouldnt be able to kneel very well and you wouldnt really be able to run or even just take long strides.
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:35 pm

Well that could be solved by plated sets but then we get back to the weight issue
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:09 am

There are some Major issues with full Body Armor and Fragmentation protection, and money is the least of the problems, Government Contracts are always too the lowest Bidder.

Mobility - Any type of Body Armor, restricts the Mobility of the Individual Soldier, and any restriction is a detriment and can put service members in more danger, the trick is finding the right trade off.

Durability - Service members live and operate under different conditions, Weather, Climate, Urban, Desert, Mountain, Woodland ......., Tests of all proposed Body Protection has to be able to withstand every possible Climate, Weather Condition and then the Miss-Use by service members.

Ease of Use- A body armor system has to be able too be used easily, getting in and out of a system that requires the help of friends, or longer than just a few seconds is a hinderance and given the oppertunity, the troops wonīt use it.

Compatability - The protection system has to be able to be used with current Weapon, Communication, Transport.

Mission Requirements - Any System has to be compatible with the different mission requirements of the person using it, you canīt expect a Snake Eater to be able to use the same system that somebody in the Cav, Armor, Air Mobile uses.

and last but not least,

Service member Approval !! - Any system has to pass the Troops Approval !! Normaly a new Product or System is Field tested by different Branches under a multitude of operating conditions, if there are to many problems or complaints, the system is dropped.

Example- Ceramic Body Armor was first tested by Airborne/Parachute elements of all all Branches in a series of HollyWood Jumps, after the first series more than half the systems were no longer functional, back to the drawing boards. Cermaic in combination with Kevlar and Carbon Fiber reenforcement, Stronger Plates able to withstand hard landings... Passed,
now it was placed into a long term test period, different weather conditions, and mission requirements, During the Long Term Field Testing, the plates started to crumble after 30 days of use, troops were becomming heat casualties and mission incapable in very short periods of time, Back to the Drawing Board. This keeps going on and on and on until a System of protection is developed that, 1 - Serves its purpose, 2 - Passes the Troop Test.

Most injuries and Deaths on the current Battlefield are from Fragmentation, not Direct Action,
The best Fragmentation Protection System currently in use are the Systems used by EOD, could you imagine a Platoon, Company or Battalion fully equiped with these suits, going into action or on a patrol ? How long would they be Combat Effective ??
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PostSubject: Re: Why hasn't full body armor taken off?   Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:52 pm

if they ever figure out how to take the thing from the spider that creates the web, and can transfer that into a silk worm,then it will most likely get more popular.

Kevlar takes a bullet and spreads the impact out 7% where the spiders web will spread the impact out 14%, plus it is still light enough it will be a perfect body armor, the thought it still in mind but you have to remember that messing with nature isn't as easy as people think.

But like everything, it all has pros and cons,

like "do I want to wear plates, under my MOLLE? it's heaver but gives me protection."

"Or should we Issue MOLLE gear over ALICE? Alice gets less hot, but also is a pain to get to pockets you might need."

"Full body armor protects out troops, but restricts there ability to move, do we wan't them dieing because they can't move away from a grande? or over heat to death? or should we make it so they can move away and risk loosing a limb, but still be able to live?"

it's those simple questions that are asked, The US military has plenty of troops, and seem like heartless, but they do think about these things, we have the tecnolgy to save most troops from anything so their not going to let them die because of one faulty piece of gear.
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