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 What do you think should replace the M4?

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iliveforthis99
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:34 pm

A .308 is roughly the same as a 7.62x51 NATO for those who didn't know, it's much bigger then a 7.62x39.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:55 pm

i think the m4 is going to be around for a while, and the design isn't going to change, remember we are americans we aren't creative. but i'm going to assume the SCAR will be put into effect it's about 1000 dollars more to make it though. SF have been experimenting with it and so far nothing but good has come out of it the bugs are being worked out and what not. but thats what i thinks going to happen.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:20 am

I truely believe that the ACR/Masada will become the next weapon for the US military.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:56 am

I have used a civilian version of the FS2000 and i don't likes its ergonomics....its similar to the P90 in that it has little plastic holes for your thumbs and your hands are angled stupidly.....Im all for the Masada because it ambidextrous and can be rechambered fairly quickly to use either the 5.56 NATO 0r the 7.62 NATO rounds, but we wont be getting rid of the M4/M16 any time soon mostly because of the invention of RIS for customisation.
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Jarhead999 76 65
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:08 pm

SnoSnipe wrote:
I truely believe that the ACR/Masada will become the next weapon for the US military.

With all due respect, I'm going to have to call "Bullshit" on this one. The Masada is waaaay to expensive to issue to each and every soldier, Marine, whatever. How much do they cost to produce? An assload, compared to the M16/4. That's kind of why I want to see the M14 put back into widespread service. There's literally tons of M14s in warehouses throughout America's military bases. The rifle was taken out of service because it did it's job too well for Pete's sake! There's no two ways around it, the M14 was a weapon that would have shook the world if it had had the chance. I applaud the Coast Guard for continuing to use it.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:24 pm

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:

With all due respect, I'm going to have to call "Bullshit" on this one. The Masada is waaaay to expensive to issue to each and every soldier, Marine, whatever. How much do they cost to produce? An assload, compared to the M16/4. That's kind of why I want to see the M14 put back into widespread service. There's literally tons of M14s in warehouses throughout America's military bases. The rifle was taken out of service because it did it's job too well for Pete's sake! There's no two ways around it, the M14 was a weapon that would have shook the world if it had had the chance. I applaud the Coast Guard for continuing to use it.

You know as well as everyone here that the M14 will never make a comeback as a primary infantry rifle...it has so many faults.

M14's weight: 11.5 lb
M4 Carbine's weight: 6.9 lb

M14's length: 46.5 in
M4's length: 29.8

M14's ROF: 700750 rpm
M4's ROF: 700-950 rpm

M14's capacity: 20-round
M4's capacity: 30-round

The M14 is pretty uncontrollable on full-auto...uses heavier rounds (a plus when you're shooting someone, a minus when you have to carry your own ammo)...and is generally an uncostumizable weapon system.

M14 FULL AUTO DATA
1st shot: Dead on
2nd shot: Squirrel hunting
3rd: shot: Anti-Aricraft
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iliveforthis99
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:55 pm

The newer model M14's are lighter and shorter, the SOCOM16 version especially. However, outside of a marksman rifle i highly doubt it'll ever make it back into a MBR role.
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br55ftw
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:26 pm

Spl. Durkee wrote:
br55ftw wrote:


Rail guns are expected to be mounted on SPA's relatively soon (2020 I believe). Their use as infantry weapons is limited, however, because of the high energy required and the recoil (assumption).

SPA?
You know you like my sexy profile picture.

Self-Propelled Artillery (M109A6 Paladin, etc)
No comment. None at all. Neutral

Also, the M14 is battle rifle (fires a 7.62 round) and we have learned that smaller rounds tend to do more damage to human targets. That's why the assault rifle class is so popular and so widely used.

Truly though, I'd bet on either the REC-7 or some other 6.8 SPC rifle.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:42 pm

Hmm....gotta say I do like the look of the Socom II's...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCOM_II_Rifle
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:59 pm

@Spl
I'm not talking the full auto variant, I'm talking the original semi. I do think the M14 may make a comeback if the US Military makes a few modifications to it. I'm thinking more synthetics, carbon fiber maybe, an RIS system, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:01 pm

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:
@Spl
I'm not talking the full auto variant, I'm talking the original semi. I do think the M14 may make a comeback if the US Military makes a few modifications to it. I'm thinking more synthetics, carbon fiber maybe, an RIS system, etc.

Um, EBR?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:06 pm

Not necessarily. Maybe more like widespread use of the SOCOM II. Durkee, thanks for causing me to give this more thought, haha
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:19 pm

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:
Not necessarily. Maybe more like widespread use of the SOCOM II. Durkee, thanks for causing me to give this more thought, haha

But the US Military like to be "state-of-the-art" with all of their weapons, even though many countries still use WWII-era weapons (MG42, best LMG ever made). That's why they want a newer replacement, rather than going back into their inventories where they have hundreds or thousands of M14 rifles.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:50 pm

the m14 is a beast weapon, it can kill in one shot, but it's still a very awkard rifle to carry. long and it's shape isn't the best. so it wouldn't be good for close quarters, and hard to use in urban areas. it would work in fields and jungles. but other places suck. i love them but they just aren't what we need.

it needs to be compact enough to use anywhere but has the range and power to kill.

i'm going to say the m16 to, they are great but need a few ajustments to be perfect.
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Spl. Durkee
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:54 pm

Gotta say I love the M14's feel. I've held both the Socom and original...
Such a natural feel. Thats just me.

There was talk for a while of removing the Automatic capability on M4's...
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:30 pm

they do have a natural feel but they just arn't the rifle, a for grip is more comfy for the user and the mags get in the way. even the socom is just to long and the design screws with people, the rifle needs the longer barrel.

honestly a good gun would be a bulpup, with the mags that are flat with the stock, such as the p90, just more AR like, so when troops have to hit the deck less will get broken and can get down lower
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:40 pm

lonesniper24 wrote:
such as the p90, just more AR like
P90 =/= AR

Haha
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:01 am

If it's a bullpup you want, I believe the best one on the market in terms of reliabilty and field capability is the AUG, but don't quote me on that. I'd imagine the US government would like to continue to use STANAG magazines, so the L85 would probably be a good choice, too.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:06 am

There's also a company that made a Bullpup body for the M14.
http://www.shortrifles.com/index.html
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:16 am

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:
If it's a bullpup you want, I believe the best one on the market in terms of reliabilty and field capability is the AUG, but don't quote me on that. I'd imagine the US government would like to continue to use STANAG magazines, so the L85 would probably be a good choice, too.

Meh i'd take the IDI Tavor over the L85A2 or AUG anyday.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:47 am

iliveforthis99 wrote:
Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:
If it's a bullpup you want, I believe the best one on the market in terms of reliabilty and field capability is the AUG, but don't quote me on that. I'd imagine the US government would like to continue to use STANAG magazines, so the L85 would probably be a good choice, too.

Meh i'd take the IDI Tavor over the L85A2 or AUG anyday.

Yeah, but think of the price. The Tavor definitely costs more than a L85 or an AUG.

@ROTC
Now that is an ugly rifle, haha
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:51 am

I agree on its ugliness
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:32 am

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:
SnoSnipe wrote:
I truely believe that the ACR/Masada will become the next weapon for the US military.

With all due respect, I'm going to have to call "Bullshit" on this one. The Masada is waaaay to expensive to issue to each and every soldier, Marine, whatever. How much do they cost to produce? An assload, compared to the M16/4. That's kind of why I want to see the M14 put back into widespread service. There's literally tons of M14s in warehouses throughout America's military bases. The rifle was taken out of service because it did it's job too well for Pete's sake! There's no two ways around it, the M14 was a weapon that would have shook the world if it had had the chance. I applaud the Coast Guard for continuing to use it.

Maybe some special groups? Special Forces? etc?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:45 am

Quote :


With all due respect, I'm going to have to call "Bullshit" on this one. The Masada is waaaay to expensive to issue to each and every soldier, Marine, whatever. How much do they cost to produce? An assload, compared to the M16/4. That's kind of why I want to see the M14 put back into widespread service. There's literally tons of M14s in warehouses throughout America's military bases. The rifle was taken out of service because it did it's job too well for Pete's sake! There's no two ways around it, the M14 was a weapon that would have shook the world if it had had the chance. I applaud the Coast Guard for continuing to use it.

I'm going to object and call it government contract with Magpul to standard issue their rifles for a set number of years...therefore guaranteeing magpul its money for its stock. Besides they made the ACR just for that reason if I don't recall the episode of future weapons that featured it.

^0^ nom on that
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think should replace the M4?   Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:55 am

If the M14 made a comeback, I think I'd sqeal like a little school girl. I've always loved the look, feel, and caliber of an M14. I was always afraid that if they gave me an M14 during training, I wouldn't want to give her up!

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