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DrummerBoyz95
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PostSubject: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:36 am

In movies and books, I've heard old-time soldiers telling the scared privates "If you see the muzzle flash, [the enemy] already missed you."

Is that true? I'd assume it's true to a certain extent... e.g. after a certain distance it wouldn't be true because the bullet takes longer to travel. But in close(ish) quarters does a bullet travel so fast you're down before you see the flash?

I don't expect any of you to input knowledge from experience, because I doubt any of you have been shot before...Scientific information is what I'm leaning towards. Razz
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Omega Lambda
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:41 am

I could argue either side offhand. Flip a coin?
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AllTheGoodNamesWereTaken
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:00 am

In a close-quarters enviorment, yes, neccesarily you would not see the flash if the bullet got you between the eyes, causing instantaneous death. If you were hit in, per say, your abdomen, and still lived you would have obviously seen the flash (providing that you were looking directly at the gunmen, of course).
Now these principals do not apply when your at sniper-range of the gunmen... since light travels faster then lead, you would have a brief period (less then a second) to catch a glimpse of a muzzle flash.
Remember in Saving Private Ryan, when the American sniper is having a face off with the German sniper? The German has only a second to see the flash before the Americans bullet found it's mark promptly into his skull.
Interesting question, the Second World War gave birth to some very famous military lore.
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Jarhead999 76 65
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:08 am

Yeah, gotta say I don't believe it. Just my opinion though. I wonder if slob would be able to tell us?
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Zane
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:48 am

Simple physics....light travels faster then the bullet. Therfore this is false.
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NoNeed2Hate
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:04 pm

i think a better way to put it is, if you saw the muzzle flash and "realized" what it is then it most likely missed. there is a difference between seeing it and realizing what it is. you can see the light just before you die and not realize what it is. but if you see it and realize it is a muzzle flash then are indeed alive or merely wounded. so therefore i believe it is true in some sense.
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Lone Wolf
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:56 pm

DrummerBoyz95 wrote:
In movies and books, I've heard old-time soldiers telling the scared privates "If you see the muzzle flash, [the enemy] already missed you."

Is that true? I'd assume it's true to a certain extent... e.g. after a certain distance it wouldn't be true because the bullet takes longer to travel. But in close(ish) quarters does a bullet travel so fast you're down before you see the flash?

I don't expect any of you to input knowledge from experience, because I doubt any of you have been shot before...Scientific information is what I'm leaning towards. Razz

The first thing to leave the barrel is always the ball...then whatever residue/flash/noise from the powder.
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Zane
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:07 pm

Let me put it this way...the speed of light is 299,792,458 metres per second..or to better understand it 186,000 miles per second.

Last time I check theres nothing man made that can go that fast xD
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Lone Wolf
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:42 pm

Zane wrote:
Let me put it this way...the speed of light is 299,792,458 metres per second..or to better understand it 186,000 miles per second.

Last time I check theres nothing man made that can go that fast xD

super collider and a lightbulb
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Zane
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:46 pm

Smarty pants :p

But your wrong..I think.

Super coliders only go close to the speed of light with the exception of the LHC..and its not full operational.

As for a light bulb....last time I checked they don\'t travel at the speed of light?
..Unless you mean the glow caused by running current through a filament causing it to glow.And thats simply converting one form of energy into another..nothing is actualy made.

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lonesniper24
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:18 pm

I have a way to test this out,

1. I need a volunteer
2. I need them to look at me
3. I need to cock my .308
4. I shoot them
5. they tell me if they saw the flash
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slob212
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:35 am

This is a YO answer, Yes and No,

Alot of variables come into play, Distance, Rounds Used, Sonic v Sub Sonic, Experiance, Reaction Time, Training.

If it is a Long Distance shot, then the answer is No, you have time to think, react, you will see the Flash while the Round is still on the way, so you could still be staring at the shooters location, start reporting, then get dropped.

With Sub Sonic munitions even at close ranges, the reaction time is increased, thus allowing for a delayed reaction of the intended target.

If you search the web, there are hours of gun cam, and spotter vids demonstrating this, aslo one of the reasons whay a sniper takes His/Her shot when the target is looking or turned away from the shooters location.

Then there are also Flashless Munitions, so you get dropped with no warning at all.
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Jarhead999 76 65
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:37 am

slob212 wrote:
Then there are also Flashless Munitions, so you get dropped with no warning at all.

Who in the United States Armed Forces would use those? I'm guessing elite scout/sniper units, SEALs, etc. etc.
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slob212
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:48 am

Quote :
Who in the United States Armed Forces would use those? I'm guessing elite scout/sniper units, SEALs, etc. etc.

Actualy more than you would think, but you are on the right track, self contained, self sufficient, self reliable People, Squads, Teams, Units.

It is quite demoralizing to the enemy, when they start getting dropped like flies, and have no idea on where the rounds are comming from.
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Jarhead999 76 65
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:52 am

Ha, if I were in the field and started recieving sniper fire but couldn't pin point it, I'd just want to get in a hole and stay there 'till somebody picked him off, haha. Just another reason not to piss off America, I guess!
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Zane
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PostSubject: Re: Is this true?   Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:16 am

Correct me if im wrong...but don\'t pretty much all modern forces use a flash supressor as well? Or did I poick that up form a movie or a book or somthing.
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