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DrummerBoyz95
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Mon May 02, 2011 11:22 pm

Lat/Long of his hideout: 34.169271, 73.242618
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 12:36 am

\"Watch your language\" that MLK jr quote he deserved to die
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 12:39 am

Sanguinary Angel wrote:
\"Watch your language\" that MLK jr quote he deserved to die
Grow the f^ck up.

EDIT: HAHAHA sorry, thought you were saying MLK deserved to die. That's not what you're saying, is it?
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 12:53 am

\"Watch your language\" no MLK was an awesome dude. i was just saying \"Watch your language\" the quote

Osama bin laden deserved to die
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 12:55 am

Sanguinary Angel wrote:
\"Watch your language\" no MLK was an awesome dude. i was just saying \"Watch your language\" the quote

Osama bin laden deserved to die

Hahah I was about to unleash h3ll on you xD

I'm fine with Osama being dead...I'm not like, ecstatic or anything, because I would rather see him go to go through the symbolic motions of an international trial (since we're fighting for our supposed democratic ideals it seems a bit hypocritical to not allow him to face trial for his actions [according to most sources it was a kill-only mission, came in guns blazin'])...but I'm mainly just disgusted by the reaction by the American public (though I suppose I half-expected it). You're going to have people acting like nuts, but I wish the media would have shown some restraint and downplayed it a bit more (like we should have downplayed/dismissed the pastor that burned the Qu'aran so it didn't get as much attention as it did).
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 2:51 am

DrummerBoyz95 wrote:
Lat/Long of his hideout: 34.169271, 73.242618

Hahaha, I was glancing around some of our past threads in the Lounge, and I noticed a fairly recent one titled "Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden".
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 11:29 am

Spl. Durkee wrote:
Osama Bin Laden has been killed !!!

Definitely. I was almost in tears when I saw the crowds in Time Square chanting "USA USA" and burning effigy's elsewhere (I'll have to find the vid again)...how is that different from when "they" go into the streets and chant and burn flags? I don't care who it is or what they've done...celebrating the murder of a human being is offensive to me and hopefully the world at large (from what I'm seeing on BBC and Al Jazeera, it IS offensive to the rest of the world). I'm not a religious person and don't like to bring it up in arguments, but how many Christians do you think were among these groups celebrating? Is killing not against the commandments of their "G0D"? Not only do they allow it, they glorify it...then say "Islam" is the religion of death and violence.

We murdered Bin Laden?

Killing is not forbiden in the Bible or in the ten commandments, murder is.



Spl. Durkee wrote:
Osama Bin Laden has been killed !!!
You don't think us invading countries over extremist political
matters (ie: the need to spread democracy) is extreme? Extremists are
the few people on this earth that care enough about a cause to do
something. MLK was an extremist. Gandhi was an extremist. Bush was an
extremist. Bin Laden was an extremist.

I have no problems with extremists, or extremes.

The problem I have is with extremes like the WBC and Al Quadia (however you spell that).

I don\'t think that either of those above mentioned organizations really preach what their religous texts say.



All that being said, I was "happy" when I heard the news, but I didnt go around rioting. This can cause major backlash, and I don\'t think the majority understands that.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 1:33 pm

Simple enough he needed to die, but i agree death's of thousands of people for 1 man was very unecessary. We could have just send a CIA kill team or something along those lines way back in the day.

I was glad to hear he was dead but knew he was nothing more than just a figure head of al quaida, if you cut off the head of a hydra 2 more will sprout in it's place.

Actually I almost totally forget he died 6 hours later.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 3:31 pm

NoNeed2Hate wrote:
I was glad to hear he was dead but knew he was nothing more than just a figure head of al quaida, if you cut off the head of a hydra 2 more will sprout in it's place.

Yeah, people don't seem to realize that he really hasn't been a prominent Al Qaeda leader these last few years...and that there are already people acting in his place. At this point it's like if the Queen of England was assassinated: the government will remain stable, just more angry.

Needless to say, something had to be done about bin Laden...even if he isn't calling the shots anymore. I'm grateful for his absence, but I will respectfully mourn his death as I would any life lost. We need to realize that he was a product of our own creation...
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 5:59 pm

Spl. Durkee wrote:
We need to realize that he was a product of our own creation...
Man, your the first person I've heard mention that...finally.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 7:14 pm

Quote :
\"Watch your language\" that MLK jr quote he deserved to die

Jeez Angel, nice demonstration of how much you have matured since 9/11, oh wait Iīm sorry, you were like what 10yrs old maybe 11 ?

Nobody said he did not deserve what he got, \"Watch your language\" Iīm a happy camper !!! Take a look around at the fools doing all the cheering, ranting and raving, 95% of them were still playing with hotwheels and barbies when 9/11 took place, and now they have resorted to the same simple mentality as the people who caused all this B.S..

Celebrating the death of 1, who is responsable directly or indirectly for the deaths of how many 10īs of thousands ? Where is the logic ? Understanding ? How about just simple morality ?

Again, Bin Laden got what he deserved, sadly it was a bit too quick, should have taken a long time, he should have been made to suffer, but that in itself would serve no purpose other than to satisfy personel revenge.

Quote :
Spl. Durkee wrote:
We need to realize that he was a product of our own creation...

Man, your the first person I've heard mention that...finally.

left that alone on purpose, this is going to open up a huge can of worms.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 7:50 pm

Agreed. It is honorable to lose one life to save thousands, but to lose a thousand lives to destroy one?

@Creed
Who cares about what religious texts say lol
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 10:13 pm

Right now, all this talk of the Al Quaida bouncing back... it's just not going to happen guys. Look at it this way: We may see a few car bombs in the next week. Probably not in the US, but overseas, sure. Back in the states, all our military bases and airports are locked tight (I should know. I pulled an hour shift of Gate Duty lastnight).
The fact is, the only reason Bin Laden had any power in the first place is that he was friggin rich! The guy was a prince (LITTERALLY!). He could throw that money where ever he wanted to. But, in the last few years, with the availability of phone and internet tracking, it became inevidably hard for him to move money around. Hence the reason why not a whole lot was heard from by the Al Quaida.
The truth is, it's looking like no one's brave enough to take leadership. Not one Al Quaida leader has released a recorded phone call or video tape or even just a statement. At this point, I think the message was given: "Mess with the US and we will find you."

CLOSING STATEMENT:
Although we may see a bumpy week ahead of us, the days of Al Quaida ruling parts of the Middle East is behind us. Say goodbye to Osama boys!
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Tue May 03, 2011 11:55 pm

my mom backed out on the flight that went into the pentagon the day prior to its departure.

Since your from germany, you just don\'t understand. You didn't have friends killed in the pentagon or overseas. Were you affected by it? or did it just pester you when you watched the news? Did you ever watch your fellow country men and women get massacred for nothing more than existing?

In the military when we have formals in our units, we toast to lost friends and drink in their honor and to future, which with Osama bin ladens death concludes that even if you stay invisible for so long, like alex just said, We will find you. That bit of moral is enough to celebrate for.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 12:28 am

alexkmmll wrote:
Right now, all this talk of the Al Quaida bouncing back... it's just not going to happen guys. Look at it this way: We may see a few car bombs in the next week. Probably not in the US, but overseas, sure. Back in the states, all our military bases and airports are locked tight (I should know. I pulled an hour shift of Gate Duty lastnight).
The fact is, the only reason Bin Laden had any power in the first place is that he was friggin rich! The guy was a prince (LITTERALLY!). He could throw that money where ever he wanted to. But, in the last few years, with the availability of phone and internet tracking, it became inevidably hard for him to move money around. Hence the reason why not a whole lot was heard from by the Al Quaida.
The truth is, it's looking like no one's brave enough to take leadership. Not one Al Quaida leader has released a recorded phone call or video tape or even just a statement. At this point, I think the message was given: "Mess with the US and we will find you."

CLOSING STATEMENT:
Although we may see a bumpy week ahead of us, the days of Al Quaida ruling parts of the Middle East is behind us. Say goodbye to Osama boys!

-__________-

You realize that almost every publicized failed attempt at a terror attack on US soil in the past 4-5 years were botched due to plain old bad luck. Underpants bomber malfunctioned...time square bomber malfunctioned...in no way were any of these thwarted by national security teams. There's no way to secure every possible terror target. Heck, just a few weeks ago ATF was getting sued for allowing a gun on a plane. In no way is our national security all-encompassing enough to handle every possible threat...and there are massive cracks. You should learn very quickly that Al Qaeda is not a mom and pop organization working out of some guy's basement.

The the reason bin Laden had power was because we funded, trained, and armed him. Even so, in the past few years his influence has faded tremendously. Ayman al-Zawahri has already secured his position and is probably issuing plans as we speak from a mansion elsewhere in Pakistan. Bin Laden's absence will in no way destabilize the Al Qaeda leadership network. They are just as capable as they have been for the last 20 years. They are not any more scared of us because they got Bin Laden...and you'll find that evident in future attacks on US soil. In no way has Al Qaeda been eradicated, even dented. To believe otherwise is foolishly premature.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 12:44 am

We funded, trained, and armed him in the '70s. I don\'t know if you've noticed, but I don\'t think we sold them RPG-7's and AK-47s either. My point is, Al Qaeda is severely damaged. Just as we would be after losing a president. Of course, we usually recover quite nicely after losing a president due to the fact that we employ democracy. But, Al Qaeda has been on the fall since four years ago. They are nowhere near as strong as they were. Without a positive leader, they are nothing.
But, only time can tell what will happen with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 12:52 am

I don't know why all this really matters. All I care about is that we scraped another speck of gunk off our boot.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 2:37 am

Hm, while I certainly do not believe this fight is over, I think we have taken a stride forward. Personally, I see signs of weakness in Al Qaeda. Just take a look at their past few "operations" that Durkee mentioned earlier; now compare them to the attacks on 9/11. The Twin Towers attacks were very well-planned, well-thought through, and executed fairly perfectly. They involved the high-jacking of multiple aircraft, all aimed at strategic psychological targets throughout the United States...our symbols of freedom, structure, and economic wealth: the White House (allegedly, of course, that hijacking failed), the Pentagon, and the WTC. This wasn't an amateur job; the hijackers and planners thought this operation through over a long period of time, and they were Al Qaeda's "elite".

So, lets once again look at the recent couple of missions. A shoe bomb, really?
Terrorist #1: "Oh, pick me, pick me! I have an idea!"
Terrorist #2: *Sighs* "Alright, what plan do you have Bill??"
Terrorist #1 "Well, um, I was thinking, um, that maybe since the shoe bomb didn't work, maybe we could put the bomb in his trousers!"
ಠ_ಠ

Well that's my two cents, feel free to comment.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 6:04 am

@Sanguinary Angel,

Quote :
Since your from germany, you just don\'t understand. You didn't have friends killed in the pentagon or overseas. Were you affected by it? or did it just pester you when you watched the news? Did you ever watch your fellow country men and women get massacred for nothing more than existing?

Ahhhh now I see where you are comming from, it all makes sense now, another case of forming opinions and assumptions without having all the facts.

Let me set some of the facts straight for you, maybe this will help you remove your head from your anal orrafice Wink .

1, Just because I live in Germany, does not mean that I am German, I happen to be a third generation Irish American !!! Born in Sharron CT. raised in Berlin, New Hampshire.

2, I lost 2 cousins at Ground Zero,
Phillip Hayes, Engine Company 217 NYFD
Michael Healey, Fire Squad 41 NYFD

So donīt assume for a minute that I donīt have a clue as to what the loss of Family feels like !

3, I donīt know what messed up unit you are with, but never, ever during all my years in boots, during any Dining in(s) or Dining out(s), did we ever salute or drink to the loss of a fallen Comrade or Friend, it was always to thier Memory and to the Sacrifice, there is no Honor in being dead, your dead-game over.

You went and made assumptions on nothing more than the information on my Avatar or Profile, without having all of the facts, you have the right to your opinion, to express your views, and to have them challenged, maybe if you read the entire posts instead of making hip-shot comments, you would have seen and comprehended, I have no problem with the action that was carried out, Operation Geronimo was a blinding success, but watching the `Celebrations ī just went on to confirm my beliefs, instead of moving forward, a vast majority of the population is stagnating or going in reverse, no better than those we are fighting. against

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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 1:10 pm

This will probably be my last post in this thread.
But I think that being joyous that the US has finally found and stopped a former Al Quaeda higher up is not wrong.
Celebrating that the US has finally got him is not wrong.
Being joyous that the US killed a man is wrong, even if the man is your enemy, don't rejoice in his death anymore than you would the death of a relative.
Celebrating because the US killed a man is wrong, be glad that he can never do those deeds again.

When I heard the news I danced around for a minute, the American flag pretty much flowing out of my bowels.
Then I sat down, (oh watch out) and I prayed and thought about the event.
I realized that there is a lot of possibility that the wars far from over, and it's only beginning.

Be glad! Be happy that your enemy has been conquered! But look towards the future at the same time, and really reflect on what it mean that he is gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 2:10 pm

alexkmmll wrote:
We funded, trained, and armed him in the '70s. I don\'t know if you've noticed, but I don\'t think we sold them RPG-7's and AK-47s either. My point is, Al Qaeda is severely damaged. Just as we would be after losing a president. Of course, we usually recover quite nicely after losing a president due to the fact that we employ democracy. But, Al Qaeda has been on the fall since four years ago. They are nowhere near as strong as they were. Without a positive leader, they are nothing.
But, only time can tell what will happen with it.
Al Qaeda is more powerful then they've every been in the past 4 years! They're gaining support in Libya, Syria, and elsewhere in modernizing mid-east nations with young populations that want reform and wish to resort to terrorism to get what they want from governments that would otherwise ignore them.

Al Qaeda DOES have a positive leader...as I said in my previous post. Even so, you don't kill a movement by killing the leader (MLK anyone?). These "#1's" of Al Qaeda have very little, if any, influence on Al Qaeda cells operating in other countries.

Time may tell, but I'd rather not sit around and wait to have a bomb go off in downtown LA.

From a recent BBC article:
Mohammad Younis, a young Taliban member who has fought for four years on the fronts of Ghazni, Helmand and Kandahar, says Bin Laden was "like my father":

"I can't really describe my grief to you. But jihad is not and never was about one man. We mourn his loss, but the struggle will never stop. We will make all those responsible for his death pay - in Afghanistan and across the world. Let them rejoice now - soon they will feel fear again."


Creed769 wrote:
This will probably be my last post in this thread.
But I think that being joyous that the US has finally found and stopped a former Al Quaeda higher up is not wrong.
Celebrating that the US has finally got him is not wrong.
Being joyous that the US killed a man is wrong, even if the man is your enemy, don't rejoice in his death anymore than you would the death of a relative.
Celebrating because the US killed a man is wrong, be glad that he can never do those deeds again.

When I heard the news I danced around for a minute, the American flag pretty much flowing out of my bowels.
Then I sat down, (oh watch out) and I prayed and thought about the event.
I realized that there is a lot of possibility that the wars far from over, and it's only beginning.

Be glad! Be happy that your enemy has been conquered! But look towards the future at the same time, and really reflect on what it mean that he is gone.
Our enemy is nowhere near to being "conquered"...and our celebrations are immature to say the least, even if they aren't about "yeah we killed him!". If you sat down and thought about it, maybe you contemplated why the "War on Terror" even started in the first place...

...and maybe why 9/11 happened?

He is a product (result?) of our society.


I got this email from the Zeitgeist Movement yesterday and thought it expressed my views in their entirety:

Quote :
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden

On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the
spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of
the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in
Pakistan.

Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks
in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural
psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and
Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like
the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being,
reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.

It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such
an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception
was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States
Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross
irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and
emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true
root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.

The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means
nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death
simply serves as a catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on
revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a
psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it
citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to
anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the
quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.

However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of
rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more
practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the
importance of that problem with respect to priority.

The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society.
It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of
relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and
communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September
11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during
the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.

As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically
limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that
allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this
context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001
become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has
now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is
spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that
pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.

Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from
automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple
structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine
over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart
disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to
environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330
9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget
allocations for research on these illnesses is only a small fraction of the
money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.

Such a list could go on and on with regard to the perversion of priority
when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I
hope many out there can recognize the severe imbalance we have at hand with
respect to our values.

So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude
this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most
brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of
non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed,
killing four little girls attending Sunday school.

In a public address, Dr. King stated:

“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many
people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So
tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. Don\'t use the Lord\'s name in vain.
has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America.
We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the
soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical
weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take
up the ammunition of love.”

- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 -


~Peter Joseph

In other news, did anyone else have their jaw drop when they read the articles about a US drone killing Gaddafi's son and attempting to kill Gaddafi himself? Are we forgetting that assassination of a head of state is illegal under international law, and forbidden by various US presidential orders?
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 7:33 pm

All this debate is silly. Why can't we just have NICE PEACE?



Sorry I just needed an excuse to post that video.
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Wed May 04, 2011 11:52 pm

Spl. Durkee wrote:
In other news, did anyone else have their jaw drop when they read the articles about a US drone killing Gaddafi's son and attempting to kill Gaddafi himself? Are we forgetting that assassination of a head of state is illegal under international law, and forbidden by various US presidential orders?

I believe those were coalition air-strikes, not US drones (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, they weren't targeted specifically at Gaddafi's son, rather the various command posts scattered around the area he lived in. However, I hardly believe it was "accidental".
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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Thu May 05, 2011 12:06 am

AllTheGoodNamesWereTaken wrote:
Spl. Durkee wrote:
In other news, did anyone else have their jaw drop when they read the articles about a US drone killing Gaddafi's son and attempting to kill Gaddafi himself? Are we forgetting that assassination of a head of state is illegal under international law, and forbidden by various US presidential orders?

I believe those were coalition air-strikes, not US drones (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, they weren't targeted specifically at Gaddafi's son, rather the various command posts scattered around the area he lived in. However, I hardly believe it was "accidental".
I just assumed it was a drone since we'd just authorized their use...and things like this tend to happen when we have drones in the air over territories of people we don't like haha. I may very well be wrong...but I had heard nothing about it being otherwise (again, I might be mistaken and there probably are news reports out there that say what/who did it). Remember that even if it was a drone, they're going to call it a "coalition air-strike"...we're trying to keep "US" and "America" out of the news when it comes to Libya.

The structure that was destroyed was a home and the strike took place while they were having dinner supposedly. We knew very well that it was a home when we dropped ordinance. That's the catch-22 of modern smart weaponry...you blow up only what you intend to blow up.

Anyone else freaking out over the pictures of the downed heli in Pakistan? It's beautiful! Supposedly was a secret "stealth" variant of the Blackhawk (not the Comanche like people are saying.).

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PostSubject: Re: Osama Bin Laden is Dead! Body in US Hands!   Thu May 05, 2011 12:46 am

canīt tell from the angle, but it could be a further development to the MH-60, since the `Burn-Out ī was done so well, impossible to ident, Hard Points now way to tell if it was a DAP.

Wondering how much pressure the govenment is putting on Pakistan to get the wreckage back, going to be interesting, the pakistan regime has itīs panties in a knot about not being informed.
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