Army v Marines !!!!

@ Zane,
That is one of the best argument defenses so far .



Just a Point of Interest, you can only loosly compare the Rangers to the Marines,
Rangers are specificly trained to Strike Hard, Violent and Fast, they have no mission requirement that requires them to Hold or Maintain any real estate or objective.

Move in, Reduce, Destroy, Capture and then get the heck out of Dodge. Follow on Forces do the rest.

I would also offer up for discussion, that you don´t have to look at the Russians to see that using a `` Traditional ´´ military force or tactics to fight a Gurilla or Insurgent force almost always end in Failure or at best a Draw, you can look to the French and the American military way of thinking in Vietnam. The Military way of thinking by both sides is exactly what Tank is saying, and we all know the end results.

zane wrote:

Marine forces can not occupy any area for a extended amount of time due to logistical issues

two words. . . viet-nam (Yes I know that is actually one word, the first person to bring it up has no brains!).

A lot of people don't realize that We (America) was winning vietnam, but the politicians did not want to occupy the country like we would have if we had won. Which is one of many reasons we pulled out (Other reasons extending to how unpopular the war was, etc).

But this proves the Marines are quite capable of occupying territory for long periods of time.

One other little bit of info. Because the Marines were occupied with Japan during WWII, the army was forced to take over an amphibious attack (as mentioned is the Marine's purpose). It was quite successful actually, what a lot of people don't realize about it though (Yes I am talking about D-Day) is that we (America sent false information to the Germans which caused them to believe the initial attack was going to happen somewhere else. This caused them to weaken the defenses on the beaches of normandy, as well as other places. In fact, weeks after D-day, the Germans thought that D-day itself was a trick to get them to weaken their defenses.

Now about the Marines defending the embassy, funny story. . .

Karen Aquilar, in the U.S. Embassy; Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991 wrote:

They told (us) to open up the Embassy, or "we'll blow you away." And then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these really big guns, and they said in Somali, "Igaralli ahow," which means "Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake".

AFU wrote:

zane wrote:

Marine forces can not occupy any area for a extended amount of time due to logistical issues

two words. . . viet-nam (Yes I know that is actually one word, the first person to bring it up has no brains!).

A lot of people don't realize that We (America) was winning vietnam, but the politicians did not want to occupy the country like we would have if we had won. Which is one of many reasons we pulled out (Other reasons extending to how unpopular the war was, etc).

But this proves the Marines are quite capable of occupying territory for long periods of time.

One other little bit of info. Because the Marines were occupied with Japan during WWII, the army was forced to take over an amphibious attack (as mentioned is the Marine's purpose). It was quite successful actually, what a lot of people don't realize about it though (Yes I am talking about D-Day) is that we (America sent false information to the Germans which caused them to believe the initial attack was going to happen somewhere else. This caused them to weaken the defenses on the beaches of normandy, as well as other places. In fact, weeks after D-day, the Germans thought that D-day itself was a trick to get them to weaken their defenses.

Now about the Marines defending the embassy, funny story. . .

Karen Aquilar, in the U.S. Embassy; Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991 wrote:

They told (us) to open up the Embassy, or "we'll blow you away." And then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these really big guns, and they said in Somali, "Igaralli ahow," which means "Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake".

Let me clarify,Marine forces cannot occupy inland for extended periods of time without the support of the Army. You can see that in Iraq right now, the army has to ship in the marines fuel and food. Close to shore their perfect since their support, the navy, can keep em, fed and fueled. As for Vietnam if the politicians say your loosing your loosing, they control your piggy bank, even the soldiers there didnt think you were winning. As for Normandy thats the exception and it was not just Americans invloved in there is was a combined Allied force, no actual false info was "send" They had a fake staging area were they put everything and anything that looked like a tank a plane ect, even burned out husks and balloons. At this time the German aircraft had to fly extremely high for reconnaissance to avoid ack acks and could not clearly see that these were fakes. Due to the staging location the Germans expected a assault somewhere else and paid the price. This is one of the greatest millatary bluffs of modern times and it probably cost the Germans the war.

I commend your intelligence

At what point was America ever winninging in Vietnam ??

We had soldiers in Vietnam 4 weeks after we had engaged ourselves in the Korean War, the were there Supporting and Helping the French.

At now point did the U.S. Combined forces ever have a clear upper hand in the entire 22 years of the Vietnahm War.

Large elements that first deployed, after the French started their withdrawl, went in with the absolute conviction that they could win, as early as 1963 Ground Commanders , Generals and Politicians back in the states said there was no way for America to win the War unless Cross Boarder Operations were allowed.

As far as Marines occuping Ground for any Period of time all I can say to that is, Khe Sahn !!!
One of the largest Military screw ups in the History of the U.S. Military.
( Now from the masses comes the screaming , )

Vietnam just went wrong from the start...And the napalm on the villeges didnt help. The US is facing the same issue in Iraq nowdays...you don't know who your enemy is and if you blow a building with them in it the next they they said you blew up a school and killed 50 children. Everytime you try and do somthing they turn it into propaganda and they get more and more support. Thats why I said you can't win a guerrila war with traditional methods.

the first thing i want to say is that as long as you are serving your country you are making a difference (unless you go to coast guard)
so what ever branch of command you are under you are help your country. ok now i can get started the Marines are an alot smaller branch but are very powerful, like most of the time they go into an operation before the army and do more of the dirty work, like they don't go on pasification missions like the Army. The army is alot bigger so it can do alot of side jobs like passification missions but i think Marines have better traing but one of my favorite quots is "A bullet from a six year old is just as powerful than a bullet from a 60 year old" meaning everyone is shooting bullets with the same amount of power.... Death or wounds that give you AIDS.

Vietnam was a cluster-bump

-$Tankand$pank$-, the USCG has allot of combat units serving in Iraq and Asshatistan right now. Saying that they are not making a difference is BS. The Iraqi navy needs to learn how to search ships/learn boarding methods too! Thats just one thing that they do, if you want to look into how crazy Coasti's can get look into the Mekong Delta conflicts. Often times USCG gun boats would be intermingled with Navy SWIFT units. Nothin like sitting on a boat waiting to get shot at......

Now back on topic, Slob I would not even compare an Airborne Ranger to a Marine grunt. The difference in training is substantial, as are the difficulty of the missions that are undertaken by Rangers. I would compare an Airborne Ranger to a Recon Marine, I think the two have a very close mission statement(for lack of better words) on the modern battlefield.

Also, who do you guys think are in combat zones before anyone else? Heck most of the time these guys are in before the wars start.... Protip, everyone wants to be them, few can actually do it..... Thats right its the US Army SOF operators! Do you really think the USMC would be able to take on the Republican guard with no air support? I think not... Who do you think was supplying the info on possible high ranking Al-Qaeda leaders, waiting to just piss on their parade.... Protip, its not the USMC....

In all due respect the USMC does allot, I just think the US Army is a more capable and effective fighting force.

To add too Zane's point, the Army has even put together a new unit to combat the ever changing battlefield. They are called the Asymmetric Warfare Group. Basically its a bunch of ex/current mil and civi's that go unit to unit teaching about asymmetric AKA abstract warfare. Most of the time they give "hands on" teachings too(in combat).

sticks

Sticks, the point I was trying to make by saying that you could Loosely compare the 2 was in being in how they conduct themselves, Swift, Violent, with a specific Goal in Mind, other than that as you stated they are worlds apart.

A Force Recon Element could be compared to an Army LRRP unit, but that is as far as the comparison goes, Mission Specific.

Now to the USCG, this should go in the Trivia Thread, but....
The USCG has had Sailors deployed to every conflict that America has been involved in since their conception, both in Blue Water, and Brown Water operations, ( also Operated with Seals and UDT in Vietnam ). Don´t look down on the USCG, some of those people afloat are some real tough S.O.B´s.

DOUGLAS A. MUNRO
HERO OF GUADALCANAL
POSTHUMOUSLY AWARDED THE CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL OF HONOR
Douglas A. Munro, Signalman First Class, U.S. Coast Guard, of Cle Elum, Washington, died heroically on Guadalcanal, September 27, 1942. He volunteered and successfully led five Higgins boats from the seaplane tender BALLARD to evacuate a detachment of Marines from a point where enemy opposition developed beyond anticipated dimensions. Munro's last words were 'Did they get off?' The Congressional Medal of Honor, the country's highest award, was poshumously [sic] presented to Munro in May 1943 by President Roosevelt at the White House. Accepting the award were his parents, Mr. and Mrs. James Munro of Cle Elum, Washington." Rel. No. 05-12-43 (7); no photographer listed.


( Imagine that, The MARINES being rescued by the USGC )

well, i have family in the army so im stickin to my guns with them and im gonna be a tanker when i'm out of high school.

I'd have to say, the army has better equipment, but the marines are better combat wise. I treat them both the same.

My dads one friend has worked trained and watched the army marines and he was in the navy seals heres what hes experienced.


Army they do all the navy does just in not so crazy instances and as far as snipers go they gives the seal snipers a run for their money 2nd

Marines heres where its interesting the marines are crazy like the seals but its all about the kill or be killed and listen to your superiors that is what the marines are. so when your superior tells your to do something goddamn it do it.

He describes the marines with a forest gump line

Drill sergent" gump why did you disassemble and reasemble your rifle so quickly?"
Gump "cause you told me to mr. drill sergent"
Drill sergent" gump your a goddamn genious.

I aint trashing the USMC but heres a little chart.

Quote :

Edited by slob, The subject on hand is Army v. Marines, the Seals are not an option, stay on Topic.

Quote :

DELETED, Off Topic

You know what? You should never go there, because I was being stupid:

"I don't see much of a difference between the Army and Marines."

I got ragged on.

They showed us this video during ROTC today

**** Warning does contain mature content ( Language )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzbr6fPDmkE

to AFU, dude i used that as my humor quote so now it looks like i copied it, oh well

Zane that vid had me almost on the floor!

Is that made by the same people who made the Broawndo commercials?

sticks