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djstasevich
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Vader
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 1:46 pm

slob212 wrote:
To go off topic for a minute, I don´t want to be the Black Sheep of the Forum but I do see AirSoft going Pro,


I have to respectfully disagree. Here's why:

1. It lacks a national unifying body (such as the NPPL for paintball) and universal set of rules and guidelines. This might happen someday, and probably should. But this in itself is not enough for airsoft to go mainstream.

2. Airsoft = MilSim. There's no way around the fact that we are using replicas of real guns. One thing that separates paintball is that the guns don't look real. In fact, there was a HUGE push to refer to them as "markers" and not guns. Companies started designing them to look less and less like the real thing. That will never happen with airsoft. In the public eye, guns are bad.

3. Because paintball evolved into a glorified form of laser tag with game speed and style and flashy jerseys, it became more of an extreme sport. A strong youth influence brought about all kinds of marketing changes from magazines to other merchandise. That doesn't exist in airsoft, and never will.

4. Airsoft is largely a foreign industry in that most gear is made overseas. Because paintball had many American companies, they could sponsor American players to get their product name out there. This led to better tournaments, prizes, etc. I doubt that anything like that will happen with airsoft.

Keep in mind airsoft's roots. These guns were originally made for military/police training. Paintball guns were originally made to mark trees to about to be cut down so road crews could just drive by and shoot the tree instead of getting out and painting a big red X on them.
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slob212
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 3:07 pm

Actualy the roots of AirSoft go all the way back to the 1950´s,

Airsoft has its roots in late-1950s Japan, where firearms were difficult or impossible to obtain due to local laws; gun enthusiasts were seeking a legal alternative to use while enjoying their passion. Airsoft is still today most popular in several Asian regions, such as Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, South Korea, and to a certain extent, the Philippines and Indonesia. The vast majority of airsoft guns, accessories, and after market upgrade parts are also manufactured in these countries. The Japanese used gun repicas that shot wadded pieces of paper to begin with, and later as the hobby developed they started shooting BB´s.

As far as a unifing body the first is already established and is world wide, with the same set of rules no matter where you Play. The AISPC ( Airsoft International Practical Shooting Confederation ), has been going strongly for the past 3 years in AirSoft, given, it is based on speed and accuracy shooting, it is the first step to an organized body.

I agree 100% with you on the gun and appearance issue, overcomming that will be extremly hard for the general public to accept, but with further education and proper spreading of correct information about the game, it will be accepted over time, Who ever thought Soccer would become so successful in the States.

Right now AirSoft is mostly a foreign manufactured and based industry, but more and more companies are opening and developing a Base market in America, TM, Classic Army, SYSTEMA, Angel, MadBull, just to name a few all have production and sales facilities located in the U.S..

I am the last person that wants to see it go Professional, but to give you an Idea how fast it is growing, In Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, AirSoft is a recognized `` SPORT´´ not a hobby. Some of their teams have BIG MONEY sponsers and backers, Some are so well organized that they are of Company strength with Platoons for every possible type of game.
International matches are taken very seriously and are played to the limit of physical and mental endurance. Portugal has gone so far as to develop 2 Airborne Airsoft companies, these guys jump into events and hit the ground running.

In Poland, and the Chech Republic, it is not unusual to be inserted into games, or different missions by Helicopter.

Now it may take some time, You and I may be retired from the Game when it happens, but sooner or later it will happen, the writing is on the wall.

There are events going on now that attract a huge number of Players, some of the Members here in Merry old England can help me out with the names of the events there, Here in Germany at most of the MIL-Sim events it is not unusual to have between 300 to 800 Players on the field at a one time, take a look at the Berget events, in the 6 years that they have been holding thier MAIN event, they have had close to 9000 players taking Part ( Shame that they ruined it with thier last event )( What happened at BERGET 6 is exactly what happened to PB.

The main reason I don´t want to see AS go Pro !!!
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M14 double-taps
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 5:24 pm

what happened at berget 6?
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killyouno5
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 5:52 pm

Ya what happened? And I would have to agrie with slob on this one it will become pro after so long. In the past year I have seen many changes and Alot of better looking guns have come out. I never even heard of a airsoft minigun before a couple of months ago and look they are on the field now.
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slob212
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Ok, a little history on Berget,

It a 72 hour MIL-SIM, the storyline is simple the Bad guys have Stolen some Rockets, and will sell them to the Highest bidder or use them against which ever team they think is the strongest, or Friendliest, depending on the Team Commander.

There are the Russians, Mercenaries, and Freedom Fighters that are all trying to get thier hands on the Rockets, using all means, by hook or crook.

Then there are the NATO forces that are trying to regain control of, and secure the Rockets before they can fall into the wrong hands.

From the moment you enter the playing field, you are `` IN PLAY´´ Respawn is a casualty collection point, and that goes for all teams, you shower, eat, sleep do everything as if it is the real deal. at no time except for sleeping in your `` SEALED´´ tent, are you allowed to remove your Glasses.

The ORGAS for Berget have all the vehicle Mock Up´s you can think of, Tank, BMP, FAV´s, BRDM, MLRS, and the Ballistic Missles. ( They really did an excellent Job )

The playing field is broken down into 5 Camps, the only 2 that are known to everybody are the Russian and Nato Bases, so of course the come under harrassing attacks ( about 3 a day ).

So you have the Dealers, the Buyers, the Wanters and the Crooks on the field all after the same thing, depending on Mission, location, and the people that you are operating with you can be in acton the entire 72 hours, or you could be Bored to death ( and that is what happened to almost everybody at the last Berget.

Apon arrival You were greeted by dealers, sellers and representitives from almost every manufacture of AirSoft Products, wanting you to buy this or that, trying to pump you for information about your elements mission so that they could pass it on to opposing forces ( One Rep was caught Red Handed, turned out it was to another Rep from the same company who was in the game, free of charge mind you, and the rest of the Players had to pay close to 200$ for tickets.

Of course this is Cheating, ORGAS were told, and the response was `` DON´T Worry About it, they are a small Team´´ of course this small team was Part of a Larger element, guess that was beside the Point.

So game play is started at 0530 to an absolutly wonderful Artillery Barrage, Blasted Everybody Righ out of thier fart sacks, got the blood flowing, adrenaline was High, Here we Go, GAME ON !!!

Yeah Right, after that suberb First Call, nothing, Patrol were sent out, convoys were escorted, food was eaten, Nothing, not one "Watch your language" thing. Except for the Reps that were roaming around the Camp trying to peddel thier wares. At around 1130, the West side of the Base was Hit, Ok, Now it begins, could be there were some planning problems, no Biggie, AAAATTTTAAAACCCCKKKKK !!!!!

As soon as a little fight developed, the attacker pulled back and we were refused permission from our commander ( ORGAS ) to give chase, Hmmmm he must have a better Plan, lets wait and see. Well Lunch Came and went, Elements inside the Base were starting to revolt, "Watch your language" if the commander isn´t going to lead, then let´s take charge and do it ourselves, we all have the storyline, we all know our jobs, In the Absence of Orders, Take Charge !!!

Well the word got out, and after being approached to ask what the problem was, the answer given was to `` Shut the %$&§ Up, You Should Be Happy That You Are Here !!!´´, excuse me !!
After more than a few choice words and being threatened with being thrown from the game, contact was made with the Head ORGA, a meeting was set up for 1500 hours for all problems to be aired out and solved.

Good, everybody had time to calm down, take a chill pill, and to get thier thoughts in order, The whole time still being pestered by Sales and Company Reps.

1445, Off to the Meeting, got there early so there would be no mix ups or excuses, 1500 came and went, no ORGA, after asking around his location was disclosed, and in complete load out, all Platoon, Company, and Team Leaders went marching into McDonalds ( Now that was Fun
Twisted Evil ), after a little surprise, and almost choking on his Big Mac, everybody marched back to OPS an aired out their Problems, Now the Orga listened and gave very good answers and responses to most of the Problems, and to the Problems where he had no answer he swore he would look into it.

So everybody has a warm fuzzy and is getting ready to rescue the rest of the Event, TANGO CHARLIE ? 1900hrs, time to choke down an MRE and prepare for Battle !!!, at 1930 base was hit again from the same people and in the exact same location, and again they used the same tactic, again the same request was made, and again it was denied.

Then it hit us, Sales Reps are in the Base, but just before the base gets hit, they dissapear.
AAHHHH, being the smart Nato troops, from that moment on all Reps, just like the Press had thier Base Privliges revoked, WRONG, after being told that they cannot be banned from any area of the Playing field, they are free to come an go as they please the hidden agenda was obvious, and the question was asked, `` How much of thier stuff do we have to buy, in order to get this Dog and Pony Show on the Road ??

Of course no direct answer was given, but the answer was, `` That, you have to find out for yourselves.´´

Needless to say Nobody bought a darn thing, and things got way out of control, Little mini Battles with Glass and Alu BB´s, shooting any "Watch your language" thing that moved, Tuning weapons way beyond the limit of the rules, the Highlight of the whole event was the 50 year old player that was taking a shower on the second day when the Base got hit, for the third time, from the same location, and from the same people, He came runnig out of the Shower Tent, soap in his Hair, wearing nothing but his flip flops, Glasses,and his war face, this wacky old dude, running like his tail is on fire, yelling at the top of his lungs, with the big dummie just flapping in the breeze, the defense was laughing so hard, the Nude guy was the only one shooting, he repelled the attack all by himself ( He would get a Pass in my Book if I was on the other side ).

Well to make a long story short, come to find out, it was the same for all elements on the field, and almost everybody to the last man or woman left with a really sour taste in thier mouths, most swore never to do another BERGET ever, even if they got their act back together.

The Reps just kept harping to use only thier products, they would sponser the team if you sewed thier patches onto your Uniform, like who in thier right minds is going to sew a 15 inch x 9 inch Red and Yellow panel patch onto the Back of thier Uniform, from BOB´s AirSoft ( made up Name, to avoid legal Problems ). The were offering low money contracts for larger teams, if they played somany events a year, and carried thier Logo.

So in Conclusion, it is only a matter of time, and it is such a shame that they managed to take such a superb event, and destroy it in a single stroke.

The Costs of this event for me come to roughly 1200$, including Travel, Hotel, and Preperation, and that is about the average for most Players living here in Europe, But think of this, There were players from America, Russia, Tukey and a hand full from Japan, how much do you think this wasted event cost them.

Going to miss doing a Motorized RB-15 Attack a 0400 in the morning on a beatuiful summer morning, even if the water is just a few degrees above freezing.


Last edited by slob212 on Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lone Wolf
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 7:16 pm

Gawd that sucks, you guys didn't even do one offensive attack and were bombarded by airsoft retailers or harrased by press.

I don't blame you for not going anymore, but "Watch your language", that is a lot of good stuff to miss.
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slob212
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 7:21 pm

In the Long run Lone Wolf, it just isn´t worth it, I´ve taken part in 5 Day long Mil-Sims, with no Companies present, Just Players.

Cost half as much, but alot more fun.

This was the first time it happened at Berget, let´s see if they learn from it, and put that dog to sleep before it goes Rabid.
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M14 double-taps
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 7:48 pm

Wow, see that is just proof that the commercialism of Airsoft IS indeed coming. And what a way to spoil an event that sounds simply amazing. Sorry that happened. How many BERGET events had you attended before this one?
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 8:15 pm

Didn't someone die at Berget awhile back(like berget 4?).

I really wanted to go to that. It would be about the same amount of money if I went to Irene. I got 2 more years till I can go anyways....

So are sales reps always like that in EU? the ones over here are extremely nice/laid-back. Or was it just the event that caused them to act like that?

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killyouno5
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 10:47 pm

Ha if I saw a nude guy running at me gun blazing I would turn and run to but if I had the chance to go to one of these it would be amazingas long as it didnt turn out like this.
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Lone Wolf
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 10:52 pm

If I ran a event I wouldn't allow retailers beyond the parking lot...so they would be limited to their vendors there, everyone would know where they were and where to buy the last minute things for over priced fees.
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Satan
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jan 02, 2009 10:53 pm

Were way off topic here I think you all have convinced me im staying. Im gonna keep doing what ive been doing. Airsoft in fall and winter and spring paintball in summer spring and fall. All even out Cool .
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slob212
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 03, 2009 3:53 am

Satan is right,

Way off topic here,

Glad that you decided to stay with AS,

It can be frustrating sometimes, you want things to develop faster, need harder games with more players, more tactical and technical scenarios, give it time it will happen.

Unless you have a large number of Hardcore players in your area, the winter months can be pretty depressing, not a whole lot of people are willing to go for a Winter Game.

Hang Tough it will get better.

Very Happy
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JARHEAD
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2009 10:02 pm

don't go with paintball, summer is our main time to play the amazing sport of airsoft, don't make the decision. You will regret it.
haha, im serious
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JARHEAD
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat May 09, 2009 3:57 pm

http://www.petitiononline.com/airsoft/petition.html please sign this petition, I know it is off topic but we need to save airsoft, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqK3jg3bo30&feature=related
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PostSubject: Re: I regret   I regret - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat May 09, 2009 4:06 pm

Dude please quit spamming the forums with the petition.... Fox news isn't going to single handily ban airsoft, and neither are the mothers against firearms. I'm not saying that signing the petition isn't going to help, but its not a life and death situation for airsoft.....

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