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| money, legal ramifications, etc. | |
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AFU Moderator
Posts : 423 Join date : 2008-10-27 Age : 35 Location : Lake Arrowhead
| Subject: money, legal ramifications, etc. Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:56 pm | |
| I have been thinking recently that there must be some way for the group to make money so that we can buy group items. What I am thinking is that the AFU will obtain money via two (2) methods.
Method one (1):
I already mentioned once that any hosted tournament had a ten (10) dollar entry fee, and that the winner would get the money as a prize. What I am now thinking is the winner will get 10% as a prize for winning, and the other 90% will be used for the group. This means that as long as ten (10) people enter the tournament, the winner will get his money back, and if more people enter he will begin to make money.
Method two (2):
Donations, if a member wants to help the group he can donate money (I doubt this will ever happen, but on the off chance). Obviously this would only work if we eventually obtain a lot of members, otherwise it is just a space filler.
Disclaimer
The general will be in charge of keeping the money, but I am going to do some legal homework, and the general upon taking office will have to sign some documents which will make spending that money without a majority group approval paramount to fraud!
basically in order to spend the money a poll will have to be done so that the whole group can have a say in what it buys.
Example: We hold a tournament, and because I like even numbers let us say 100 people attend and each pays $10. That is $1000 dollars ($100 of that going to the individual or team who won the tournament). So the AFU now have $900 dollars to spend. So the general makes a poll in a member only area on the website and everyone votes.
Let us assume that the general picked several different things to vote on (one choice being other in case the group doesn't like any of the general's choices).
1. Several airsoft rifles to be used by the group (Pending group approval the rifles can be rented out for whatever amount during operations). This means, let us assume we rent each rifle for $20 and let us say we bought 7 rifles, that is $140 every match that goes back into the groups bank account. The same can be done for grenades, etc etc.
2. We distribute the $900 to the official group teams so that they can improve their equipment for non-group hosted events/tournaments.
3. We use a portion of the $900 to make ads on facebook/the internet to obtain more members in our area.
4. Other
So pretty much the group votes on what to do with the money.
Disclaimer
The AFU is designed so that you do not have to spend a single penny if you don't want. If you obtain a working airsoft rifle/equipment, you still don't have to spend a penny as long as you didn't steal them. This method is just for people who WANT to enter the tournament. Nothing is ever required. AND AGAIN the general will have to sign a lot of legal documents that makes unlawful spending of that money paramount to fraud! | |
| | | Lone Wolf General
Posts : 2551 Join date : 2008-07-03 Age : 33 Location : Marietta, GA
| Subject: Re: money, legal ramifications, etc. Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:10 pm | |
| Shouldn't a percentage of that money also go to the group who hosts a event. Because they would need to provide food and other things.
Volunteers are necessary, but if the volunteer has to spend money for the cause then they should be repaid. | |
| | | AFU Moderator
Posts : 423 Join date : 2008-10-27 Age : 35 Location : Lake Arrowhead
| Subject: Re: money, legal ramifications, etc. Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:53 pm | |
| All events are hosted by the general/brigadier general. Even if they can not attend a event it is their job to get the word out, the location etc.
But I see your point, so maybe another 10% will go to the general/brig general for paying the cost of the event.
Which will require more legal paperwork to prevent them from spending that money on themselves.
Disclaimer
Also, the general/brig general will be required to provide exact paperwork on EVERYTHING they purchase with the group money. Exact copy of recites, etc. | |
| | | sticks.13 Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2008-02-10 Age : 32 Location : C-BUS, Ohio
| Subject: Re: money, legal ramifications, etc. Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:50 pm | |
| Well the only reason I would find something like this necessary would be equipping new members(ie. members pay a fee and they get BDU's and goggles). Unless AFU issued/rationed out BB's/food(like buying a box of MRE's for the club) and other game necessities. I think its a cool idea! Most of the extra cash from events around here go twords having better events next time(ie, better propes, raffel with prizes, more buildings etc etc), so you may want to think about that.
I'm sure this is legal as long as no one makes a profit, in which case it would be considered a business.
sticks | |
| | | AFU Moderator
Posts : 423 Join date : 2008-10-27 Age : 35 Location : Lake Arrowhead
| Subject: Re: money, legal ramifications, etc. Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:13 pm | |
| Like I said, I will do legal research. The only person who gets money for personal use is the winner of the tournament (That 10%) other than him, it will be illegal to spend the money on anything not for the group, and without group approval. Meaning the general/brig gen can't even buy BBs unless the majority of the group clears them to do so.
Upon taking the office of gen/brig gen they will be required to sign some documents under a witness, these documents will make a guarantee that they are aware that the unlawful spending of this money is in fact illegal, theft, and is punishable by law.
As a matter of fact, we will be making it illegal to hold that money inside a private bank account too. To further protect the money it will be transfered to american express gift cards. Again, recites will be required to be provided. The recites will have the amount each card is worth and the activation fee. Another document that will be required is that the general/brig will keep update the records EVERY month. This means on the first of every month the general/brig will have to count the gift cards and make it known how much there is in terms of actual cash.
The reason I am thinking of doing it like this, you can't purchase things online with multiple cards without doing multiple transactions or contacting the company.
We may use green dot cards so that we can put $200 instead of 100, that way we have a little more flexibility.
The key to this idea I think is insuring the money is only used for the group. Or the reimbursement for snacks, etc. and reimbursement will require exact recites for everything purchased. | |
| | | slob212 Moderator
Posts : 1489 Join date : 2008-09-05 Age : 113 Location : Germany
| Subject: Re: money, legal ramifications, etc. Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:47 pm | |
| The problem with having an incoming cash flow, either through donations, team dues, selling tickets to events and so on, you make yourself into a Business, especially when you are talking about awarding cash prizes. Sticks hit on it a little.
One of the ways to avoid any kind of legal trouble is to declare up front that you are a `` Non-Profit ´´ organization. Simply turning the money over to an individual, to dispense of for equipment, props, prizes and so on is going to lead to some major problems.
First is Accountability, who ever agrees to take charge of the cash flow, will have to be able to account for every single penny, and this over a long period of time, hope you have somebody that is really good at book keeping. How will the Money be controlled, handled, and where will it be kept ? Bank ? What kind of an account ? How will Interest be used ? Who is going to answer to the Intestinal Regurgitation Service ? Then comes the issues on what the money will be used for. Will this be a Command decision, Team Unanimous vote or by Majority.
Having Funds to use is a great thing, but it is a subject for many headaches and gray hairs.
If you are going to be offering Prizes at your events, I hope you have more than enough Marshals and Ref´s on the field to insure that no Cheating will be happening. Remember the Majority of your AS Players are Type ``A´´ personalities, and for some winning is all that matters, they have forgot how to have fun in the game. | |
| | | AFU Moderator
Posts : 423 Join date : 2008-10-27 Age : 35 Location : Lake Arrowhead
| Subject: Re: money, legal ramifications, etc. Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:53 pm | |
| I am now thinking that it would be hard to trust every new person who is voted general with the money.
Here is what I am thinking.
All money will be used to help official group teams? Like I said at one point, the AFU is comprised of teams, but the group does have official teams comprised of everyone in the group. It is the only area in the group with permanent ranks etc.
I think by doing it like this we accomplish a few things.
1. Because the teams are getting the money to spend on their team, they will be used as refs during a tournament. (To make this up to them we will also hold team tournaments for fun).
2. Also, instead of one person (the general) keeping all that money, each team captain will be given a fair portion of that money. The general's job changes so that he doesn't spend a dime, the teams do. The general just needs to keep records on what the money was spent on, so recites and everything is still required, and the team captains will have to sign the same documents as the general. I believe this might be a safer method.
3. Also, I had the concern before that once the money was spent, who gets the items that were bought, who keeps everything? What happens if suddenly the AFU is disbanded for whatever reason? Do we auction off the items bought for the group then give the money to charity? If an individual got to keep the items, then the money might as well have gone to him. With this new method the teams will own the items.
This means if they bought Bob 1 a rifle, he owns the rifle, if they bought bob 2 BDUs, they are his. Problem solved on who keeps everything.
4. In order to spread the expenses of holding a tournaments, the refs will help out with meals, etc. Because of this a commission will be given to reimburse them for everything paid from their own pockets. Meaning they don't make anything, but they don't lose anything.
Why this method over the other? This only helps official teams and not the whole group?
Because these are the teams that represent us at official airsoft events, they do help the group by looking professional (naturally they will have to be skilled, talented and respectful too). When they promote the AFU at other events, we will obtain more members and hopefully one day open up a second region.
Maybe because of this, one day the AFU will go international (HAHAHAHAHA) and we will be able to promote airsoft globally in a way that defines it as a well respected sport.
Well, that is my current thought processes. | |
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