Army v Marines !!!!

Since this discussion will probably go on and on and on, it deserves its own Tread,
I took the liberty of starting this thread with the last 2 posts from the previous discussion, not to downplay or take away value from other posts, but just to restart the discussion here. So here we go, it can get heated, and passionate, but remember the Forum Rules !!!!

Here we go............................................


.Continued.........

AFU wrote,

sniper004 wrote:
. . .my gpa who was a marine said the only difference between an army solder and a marine soldier is one thinks hes the better than the other..


Actually, I really do respect the Army, and those who have enlisted. But I beg to differ (sorry to remain off topic but I must say this), the Marines have a lot more, and better training than the army. This isn't to say that an army personnel can't be as good as a Marine, but, to pull out a few good quotes that have demonstrated the difference between the Marines and the Army throughout history .. .

Gen. John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, USA 12 February 1918 wrote:
Why in (swear word) can't the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines.


Navy Times; November 1994 wrote:
Marines know how to use their bayonets. Army bayonets may as well be paper-weights.


Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the assault on Grenada, 1983 wrote:
We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the (swear word) is going on?


2nd Lt. Richard C. Kennard, Peleliu, World War II wrote:
My only answer as to why the Marines get the toughest jobs is because the average Leatherneck is a much better fighter. He has far more guts, courage, and better officers... These boys out here have a pride in the Marine Corps and will fight to the end no matter what the cost.


Father Kevin Keaney, 1st Marine Division Chaplain ,Korean War wrote:
You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are.


I have a lot more too, Quotes where Korean Generals refuse to fight the Marines and would rather engage the Army, Foreign offices complimenting the Marines, etc.

from Sticks,

I would say that the modern Army is allot different than the US Army of the past. The Basic training of the USMC is probably better yes, but the overall training of the Army I think is better than any other branch. I have a friend who is serving with Lima company(local USMC unit). He said the USMC was great but they don't have allot of the opportunities that the Army gives to their soldiers. The Army is also allot larger than the USMC, so saying that the USMC has better training or better men than the army is ridiculous. I would say that most army and marine units are equal in their fighting capability as individual soldiers, but most of the time they serve two totally different tasks.

About the first and third quotes,

Pershing was referring to the speed in which the Army battalions were training I believe. I have a great book that has part of an biography about him in it. I'll find the title.

And the Grenada quote is misleading because the Army units were responsible for getting the US hostages out of the university... Again I am not totally sure about this but I believe this was the situation.

But good quotes all the same. If you really want to see the BA side of the Army, check out all the airborne regiments as well as the 10th mt regiment. I don't think you even need to look up the SF or Rangers, the name alone struck fear into the enemy in Nam(most rangers in Nam were actually LRRP units), as well as Grenada.

sticks

Quotes first,

Quote :

Gen. John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, USA 12 February 1918 wrote:
Why in (swear word) can't the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines.

If I remember correctly, the Marines didn´t do it, they ended up loosing the Castle.

Quote :

Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the assault on Grenada, 1983 wrote:
We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the (swear word) is going on?

The Marines were only able to go running around rampant after they were relieved in place by 1 company of the 2/508 ABN Inf. ( B co, )
Had SEAL Team 4 been successful in accomplishing its initial mission at the start of the Invasion, the Forces sent into Salinas would have known what they were up against and where the Enemy was located. Due to Unknown Reasons 4 members of ST4 were killed on the jump in, either due to equipment or technical malfunction ( rumors said that they were accidentally run over by their support craft ).
The little Airstrip of Pearls, and the small town of Grenville were lightly defended in comparison to the defense of Salinas, True Blue, Grand Anse, Ft. Fredrick, Callvigny, and the Government House that ST6 attacked single handed, but later needed the assistance of C co. 1st RGR BN to withdraw. ( the Telephone call for CAS/ARTY support was done here by Sailors and Soldiers not Marines .)

Quote :

Actually, I really do respect the Army, and those who have enlisted. But I beg to differ (sorry to remain off topic but I must say this), the Marines have a lot more, and better training than the army.

Such as ??
In Basic training the only difference is the amount of time and intensity that the Corps puts on BRM ( Basic Rifle Marksmanship ) ( I wish that the Army adopt the same Training ).
The principles and subject matter taught are Identical, only the techniques are Different.
After Basic it is not uncommon to see Marines attending schools from other branches, or to be doing Exchange Training with other branches the same goes for the Army, but this usually applies to Marines and Sailors and Soldiers working in Special Fields or Jobs.



The Corps is Great !!! No doubt about it !!!
Do you know what the biggest difference between a Marine and a Soldier is ??
They each think they are better than the other, and they are both wrong.

Joke,
The first man to Enlist in the Corps is standing next to the Recruiting Station waiting to greet the next man to enlist,
The second Marine walks up to the first, shakes his hand and says, `` So this is the Marines, Is it Hard ? ``
The first Marine responds,
`` Not like it was in the Old Days ´´

Marines no competition

Quote :

and the basis for your comment ?

I would say the Marines are better becuase they get the better training and they just kick ass. The Army is more techniclly advanced though and usally have the better equiptment. For example the Army has the Abrams M1A2 which is the new model and the Marines have the Abrams M1A1 which is the old model and I don't think they're going to be getting the M1A2 anytime soon. Im still going to have to stay on the Marines side.

I would defiantly go Marines
My pops was a Marine and was deployed to Grenada for the attack
But i think that the Marines are just all around higher trained soldiers then those in the Army.
Im not saying Army is no good just Marines are better

Quote :

For example the Army has the Abrams M1A2 which is the new model and the Marines have the Abrams M1A1 which is the old model and I don't think they're going to be getting the M1A2 anytime soon.

You can thank the Department of the Navy for that.

Army all the way!!!! They are a more capable fighting force.... Let me know when the USMC can drop 8000 troops 100 miles north of a large armored push to cripple a country where the residing leader has been assassinated by a smart bomb that was guided by a SOF soldier.... All by itself...

Also I'm still defiant about that training thing. Only the marksmanship qualifications are higher. but the time allotted for USMC basic compared to Army basic is an extra two weeks. Thats two weeks that someone will not be in a specialty training coarse. I would like to see the Army increase their marksmanship standards though.

But the army did make ACU.....

sticks

The Army often has to rely on the airsoft, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Marines don't.

The Marines have their own Pilots, etc. And that extra 2 weeks isn't what I mean by better training. I simply mean the Marines have overall better training.

Douglas McAurther, who was General of the Army in Korea said that had he one more Marine regiment, he would have won the war.

General of the Armies Douglas McArthur in Korea,
overheard and reported by Marine Staff Sergeant Bill Houghton, Weapons/2/5 wrote:

If I had one more division like this First Marine Division I could win this war.

General Mark Clark, U.S. Army wrote:

The American Marines have it [pride], and benefit from it. They are tough, cocky, sure of themselves and their buddies. They can fight and they know it.

Orders given to Communist troops in the Korean War; shortly afterward, the Marines were ordered, to not wear their khaki leggings. wrote:

Do not attack the First Marine Division. Leave the yellowlegs alone. Strike the American Army.

Gen. John "Black Jack" Pershing, U.S. Army, Commander of American Forces in World War I wrote:

The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.

Prime Minister of Britain, Sir Winston Churchhill wrote:

I am convinced that there is no smarter, handier, or more adaptable body of troops in the world.

Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, U. S. Army, Commander, Operation Desert Storm, February 1991 wrote:

I can't say enough about the two Marine divisions. If I use words like 'brilliant,' it would really be an under description of the absolutely superb job that they did in breaching the so-called 'impenetrable barrier.' It was a classic- absolutely classic- military breaching of a very very tough minefield, barbed wire, fire trenches-type barrier.

Admiral William Halsey, U.S. Navy wrote:

The Marine Corps has just been called by the New York Times, 'The elite of this country.' I think it is the elite of the world.

General Douglas MacArthur, US Army wrote:

"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!"

Well, I think that is enough, notice how many of those are FROM the army.

Marines,
much as the army gets the kids the marines is where its at
NO war for me 1 eye sucks when your attacking/defending possibly navy

Quote :

The Army often has to rely on the airsoft, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Marines don't.

Wait...what???

HAHAHAHA, wow. . . I meant to say air-force.


I have airsoft on the brains.

The Army relies on the AirForce the same way that the Marines rely on the Navy, Long Range Transportation, Taxi !!!

The Army also has its own internal Transportation an Aviators, Just like the Marines.

hahah I was about to go california on yo a$$ AFU haha.

I respect both of these branches with the utmost respect. Each one of them are heroes in my book. One thing about the Marines is that theyre the only branch that can join another without taking their Basic Training.

What is going California on me. . . I'v lived in Cali my whole life I don't get it.

MArines all the way, smaller force, better tactics, rely on there team mates and tactics instead of just a massive amount of men.

and they seem to get the spotlight more

WW2;101st airborne, d-day regements
vietnam;(spl any ideas)

AFU, I don't know haha

The US Army and the US Marines are two very different services. The mission goals for each service are different, and they accomplish their work in different ways. While people might be tempted to lump the two together since they both form parts of ground-based invading forces, most soldiers and marines would resent implication that the two forces are indistinguishable.

The US Marines are a highly mobile amphibious attack force. Marines are trained to attack from the water and establish a beach head, an area of control on foreign soil. After the Marines take territory, other armed forces such as the US Army move in to maintain control, while the Marines move on. Marines are mobile, lightweight, and very rapid. One might compare the Marines to the head of a spear, wedging in to get a foothold and racing ahead once the land has been secured.

In addition to acting as a lightweight attack force from the ocean, Marines are also perfectly capable of taking territory on land. Marines are trained for rapid deployment, and are often the first US military personnel on site.Marine forces can not occupy any area for a extended amount of time due to logistical issues. Marines also guard American embassies overseas, providing embassy security and safety. In volatile areas, being a Marine embassy guard is a very risky job.

The US Army, on the other hand, is the primary ground-based military force. As such, the US Army captures and holds territory with the use of infantry, aircraft, and an extensive support staff. The US Army is in the thick of battle, and is a substantially larger armed force than the Marines. Certain members of the US Army, such as the Army Rangers, have training which is similar to that received by the Marines.

Both forces have reserve troops, which can be activated in times of need. The Army reserves are significantly larger, however. Unlike the Marines, the US Army also has extensive support staff, including medical personnel. The Marine Corps relies on the Navy for many support services, keeping the service small and efficient.

Yeah but they both have something in common, we need more of them we only have 3 million people in our military forces we could use another 10 million and we wouldn't have much conflict in the "sand-lands"

More troops would be bad for fighting a guerrilla style war. Learn your lesson from the Russians. In the "sand lands" as you call them there are no front lines, numbers will not win that war. ever. What you need are small mobile units that are trained to fight this kind of war. In a guerrilla style war the guy you help rebuild his house will blow up 100 people the next day. There is no "enemy" for you to see and engage in most cases. And correct me if im wrong but this is getting dangerously close to politics so back on topic.

Yes yes very true but, the more people you have over the less the "enemy" will attack and we would be able to expand and gain control and keep a stronghold on the throat of terrorism

As I stated earlier ask the Russians how that worked for them a few years back. The US has some of the best trained troops in the world however this is not that kind of war. Study military tactics the way to win a gorilla war is not with superior fire power.

I'm aware but having more troops would make it easier it would have to its common sense