9/11 Trials in NYC

Should they be trying the 9/11 planners in a civilian court or in a military tribune?

Either way, they're heads are coming off.

Well, yeah, they'll get what they deserve, but still, I think it should be tried in a military tribune.

Part of me thinks they should just be held on a life sentence. You never know, if we kill them, their knowlege dies with them. There may be things we are missing.

Right, so we interrogate them, beat the holy hellfire outta them, interrogate them a little more, then send 'em to Gitmo for a couple years (assuming Obama doesn't shut the place down), and they lop their heads off and throw their bodies in a fire. See, problem solved. They'd do worse to a captured American.

The worst torture for a terrorist is to tell them the truth: those 72 virgins? A bunch of lonely guys just like themselves who blew up a car instead of getting some. Talk about a wasted life.

But where we try them is largely symbolic of who we are and how we feel about them. The end result will be pretty much the same either way.

One of the virgins will be Adam Lambert, haha.

And, I realize the end result will be the same, but how the "Watch your language" does the government think they're going to get an impartial jury? You'd have to have been born after 2002, and then maybe.

Actually torture doesnt work on people that dedicated to their cause. And jarhead...i think you should talk to someone about all the ideas of torture and heads getting chopped off........

They'd do worse to our guys. If you think that is violent, you must not know much about the Viet Cong.
Anyways, back to topic

Military the 911 planners didnt just ih the twin towers so it does effect out military and because we are engaged with the people the planners represent it should be military. As for torture theres some uunderground bunker sumwhere and we'll get what we want.

.... I don't actually know about this one. Maybe both? The twin towers were in no way a military instillation, however we cannot forget the Pentagon attack as well.

You probably don't want these guys dead, in fact a max security prison would probably be better. Make them go insane and let them live like that till they die. Also, per say we kill these people, 90% chance it turns them into martyrs and anti US propaganda... For these reasons I'm leaning twords the military Tribune.

sticks

Hmmm... didn't think about that, sticks. But to me, super max just seems to be too good for them. "Watch your language", the American jails would probably be more like vacations for them; Three squares a day, a warm bed, human rights... better than what they had in Afghanistan, I can guarantee you. But, I can see how execution would backfire on us big time, as well.

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Right, so we interrogate them, beat the holy hellfire outta them, interrogate them a little more, then send 'em to Gitmo for a couple years (assuming Obama doesn't shut the place down), and they lop their heads off and throw their bodies in a fire. See, problem solved. They'd do worse to a captured American.

We can't, we just can't...
Do you remember the recent "Water Boarding" controversy?

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Should they be trying the 9/11 planners in a civilian court or in a military tribune

NO! First off;
These are not US "civilians" and even if they were "legally" citizens then still why would we try them in a civilian court? They killed are soldiers! They killed our people!
NO! Second off;
They are not part of a organized army, they ave NO rights, no flag, no real country or body of people! Even reading Miranda rights to them is stupid, they do not have the right to remain silent! THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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And, I realize the end result will be the same, but how the "Watch your language" does the government think they're going to get an impartial jury? You'd have to have been born after 2002, and then maybe.

You have to realize, many Americans don't like this war and will be against it no matter what, do you listen to the news? Both sides? You have to to have significant knowledge to make these decisions...

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The twin towers were in no way a military instillation

That was an act of WAR upon the US... There fore MILITARY TRIBUNE

Creed769 wrote:

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The twin towers were in no way a military instillation

That was an act of WAR upon the US... There fore MILITARY TRIBUNE

That is debatable. Would you concider an illegal mexican immigrant coming across the border and killing people an act of war?

Yes it is debatable, the Illegal is not declaring war on the US, 9-11 was a DECLARATION of war from radical Islamic Jihadists! AKA AL Qaeda!
There is a large differance, you must know this everyone, ask yourselves this;
If a terrorist organization blows up 2 key building killing over one-thousand people, is that an act of war? FINE ITS NOT WAR! Happy? Then if thats not war what is? CALL IT WHATEVER YOU WANT! Have you heard why they did this? WAS IT GENOCIDE? Killing Americans? Is that what it is? The bottom line is that do they deserve a civvie lawer, no they do not!

I am going to request a thread lock because this debate violates the creed of airsoft allies.

"No Hating, No Politics. Strictly Airsoft"

Take it to PM gentlemen

The AA creed actually doesn't apply in the off topic section... But if this turns into a flame war I will lock it ASAP....

Creed, Firstly Al Qaeda is a very organized army/extremist religious faction.

Second, I do believe the Geneva convention protects them, so they do have rights.

Thirdly, if they have no rights, no lawyer, the attacks would just go in vain.... What do you plan on charging them with? And who could charge them? Remember these are not the guys who actually blew up the towers. These are the guys who made the plans for the attack...

I do not believe it was a declaration of war at all. It was exactly what their namesake calls it. An act of terrorism, do you know how much airlines lost after 9-11 because of scared travelers? Well American Airlines stock dropped by $2.70 a share! In one day! United took a larger hit, its stocks fell by 42%! Besides, we were the ones who started the war in the first place....

sticks

Creed769 wrote:

Quote :

Right, so we interrogate them, beat the holy hellfire outta them, interrogate them a little more, then send 'em to Gitmo for a couple years (assuming Obama doesn't shut the place down), and they lop their heads off and throw their bodies in a fire. See, problem solved. They'd do worse to a captured American.

We can't, we just can't...
Do you remember the recent "Water Boarding" controversy?

Quote :

And, I realize the end result will be the same, but how the "Watch your language" does the government think they're going to get an impartial jury? You'd have to have been born after 2002, and then maybe.

You have to realize, many Americans don't like this war and will be against it no matter what, do you listen to the news? Both sides? You have to to have significant knowledge to make these decisions...

In answer to your 1st Response:
That whole thing was a load of bullshit. I personally believe we should be able to do anything to defend the safety of Americans. The American public has turned into a bunch of politically-correct sissies who won't do anything for fear of being sued or being politically incorrect.



Your second response:
Of course I watch the news! I know the American public doesn't like the war, but that is because of the liberal media reporting all the bad aspects of the war. They'll say "Holy "Watch your language", a US Marine killed a civilian! Let's execute the Marine! (Five or Ten minutes of analysts talking about civilian.) In other news, 50 US soldiers were killed in a suicide bombing in a market in Baghdad. Now lets go to Sparky with the weather to see what's going on in your neck of the woods." It's because of unfair reporting. Besides, the public also doesn't seem to realize that collateral damage happens in war. You can't escape it.[quote]

Ok Guys, Let´s all take a deep breath, give a slow even WOOooooozzzzaaaa, while rubbing the ear lobes and relax for a minute.

The planners of 9/11 cannot be tried for 9/11 before a Military Tribunal,

A military tribunal is a kind of military court designed to try members of enemy forces during wartime, operating outside the scope of conventional criminal and civil proceedings.

Even tho al-Qaida was and is a recognized terrorist organazation, at the time of the attacks, they were not engaged in a war with the U.S., the attacks were the catastist that brought about the war.

All of their targets were civilian, the Pentagon may house all the branches of the military, but it is still a Civilian Office building, under control of the Federal Government.

As far as trying them for Crimes,
They may not have killed all the victims of the attacks, but....
Their planning for the attacks resulted in the Deaths, so they could be tried for Conspiracy to commit Murder, and since the actions were succesful, Murder, Murder through Proxy, Assault, Conspiracy to Hijack, Kidnapping, Unlawful Detainment, Assault, Willful Destruction of Property just for a start.

Regardless, these individuals will be forced to pay for their actions and no matter if it is in Civilian Court, or if they were captured while engaged in actions against U.S. Forces ( Which opens the door for a military tribunal ), what ever the outcome, they will be Martyed by the twisted individuals that follow ther way of life and train of thought.

The Geneva Convention will only afford them the protection that is offered to Human/Civilians,
A terrorist organazation is not a recognized Military or Partisan organization operating in Protection of their Country. They are not recognized as a standing Military force established by and supported by their parent nation to protect the populace and political policies, laws or predicts of the established government.




I know it is hard not to get to emotional, due to what they did and after all that has happened up until now, but lets keep the emotion down to a tollerable level.

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That whole thing was a load of bullshit. I personally believe we should be able to do anything to defend the safety of Americans.

Does that include Travel Restrictions ?, Forcing American Policy and Politics on to other nations ?, Racial/Nationality Profiling ?, Ethnic Seperation/Segregation ?, Punnishable Offenses for Ant-American Literature or Comments or Protests ?, Resrtictions on Religous practices or worship ?, Government seizure of property and assets based on suspicion or ethnic backround ?, Search and Seisure based on ethnic backround or heritage ?, Confiscation of all Firearms owned by suspected individuals ?, Detainment or arrest of individuals suspected of dangerous activity ?, Allowing the torture or interrogation of suspected Individuals ?, Arrest or Detainment of suspected individuals only to be released at the leasure of the Government ?,

Is that the `` Anything ´´ you are talking about ?
Sounds like Stalins Russia, Nazi Germany, Pol Pot´s Cambodia, North Korea, Communist China, Castro´s Cuba to me,
I guess we need to toss the Bill of Rights right out the window, along with the Constitution, GWB Jr. said it, `` It´s just a Piece of Paper ´´, so let´s do `` Anything ´´, whatever it takes, right. Oh and before I forget, let´s also keep in mind, we did support the people that are responsible for the 9/11, when they served our purpose.

slob212 wrote:

Quote :

That whole thing was a load of bullshit. I personally believe we should be able to do anything to defend the safety of Americans.

Does that include Travel Restrictions ?, Forcing American Policy and Politics on to other nations ?, Racial/Nationality Profiling ?, Ethnic Seperation/Segregation ?, Punnishable Offenses for Ant-American Literature or Comments or Protests ?, Resrtictions on Religous practices or worship ?, Government seizure of property and assets based on suspicion or ethnic backround ?, Search and Seisure based on ethnic backround or heritage ?, Confiscation of all Firearms owned by suspected individuals ?, Detainment or arrest of individuals suspected of dangerous activity ?, Allowing the torture or interrogation of suspected Individuals ?, Arrest or Detainment of suspected individuals only to be released at the leasure of the Government ?,

Is that the `` Anything ´´ you are talking about ?
Sounds like Stalins Russia, Nazi Germany, Pol Pot´s Cambodia, North Korea, Communist China, Castro´s Cuba to me,
I guess we need to toss the Bill of Rights right out the window, along with the Constitution, GWB Jr. said it, `` It´s just a Piece of Paper ´´, so let´s do `` Anything ´´, whatever it takes, right. Oh and before I forget, let´s also keep in mind, we did support the people that are responsible for the 9/11, when they served our purpose.

Well, no. I didn't think about that. I see your point slob, and I apoligize. I let emotion get in the way of rational thought. What you described is not the American way, and I am ashamed. I will try to think more before I post things like that, I promise.

Jarhead999 76 65 wrote:

slob212 wrote:

Quote :

That whole thing was a load of bullshit. I personally believe we should be able to do anything to defend the safety of Americans.

Does that include Travel Restrictions ?, Forcing American Policy and Politics on to other nations ?, Racial/Nationality Profiling ?, Ethnic Seperation/Segregation ?, Punnishable Offenses for Ant-American Literature or Comments or Protests ?, Resrtictions on Religous practices or worship ?, Government seizure of property and assets based on suspicion or ethnic backround ?, Search and Seisure based on ethnic backround or heritage ?, Confiscation of all Firearms owned by suspected individuals ?, Detainment or arrest of individuals suspected of dangerous activity ?, Allowing the torture or interrogation of suspected Individuals ?, Arrest or Detainment of suspected individuals only to be released at the leasure of the Government ?,

Is that the `` Anything ´´ you are talking about ?
Sounds like Stalins Russia, Nazi Germany, Pol Pot´s Cambodia, North Korea, Communist China, Castro´s Cuba to me,
I guess we need to toss the Bill of Rights right out the window, along with the Constitution, GWB Jr. said it, `` It´s just a Piece of Paper ´´, so let´s do `` Anything ´´, whatever it takes, right. Oh and before I forget, let´s also keep in mind, we did support the people that are responsible for the 9/11, when they served our purpose.

Well, no. I didn't think about that. I see your point slob, and I apoligize. I let emotion get in the way of rational thought. What you described is not the American way, and I am ashamed. I will try to think more before I post things like that, I promise.

Lolz its about time

I already live in Communist California, I would hate to have my whole country go that route.

@Jarhead999 76 65

It is an emotional subject, no need to feel ashamed, believe me in some aspects i feel the same as you, that´s why I am so happy that in most circumstances cooler heads prevail.

Well, I will not be ashamed then, but I will think before I post now.

I have a couple of points to make here and bear with me to the end.

What all of you need to realize, and what the Government finally realized at the close of the Bush administration, is that if you treat this like a conventional war you will lose, no amount of high tech doo-dads or big bombs will win a guerrilla war.

The only way to win a guerrilla war is to one, gain the trust and respect of the people-- you don’t do that by killing, capturing or torturing everyone you find-- and two, once the people trust you they will help you find the real enemy.

What you also need to realize is this--there is no real enemy, that shop owner you just bought some pretty cloth for your wife from? Tomorrow he straps on a bomb and kills 40 children in a playground. Again, we get back to my point--- Terrorists work by recruiting the common man through propaganda, by torturing, and getting civis killed in the crossfire you help them.

And my final two points are this, and if they offend you sorry deal with it. Allot of people seem to be of the thinking "do everything to catch the evil doers" this includes, but is not limited to, giving up your rights to privacy, freedom of speech, and letting the government do as it pleases. If you are of this mind you are an idiot, you are probably among the same that says rawr blah were the country is becoming communist, socialist ect. If you read your history Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini all rose to power doing this--at first if you weren’t doing it you weren’t "patriotic" later you were killed. Don’t be a idiot, get your news from a reliable news source, FOX aka FAUX news, CNN, MSNBC are NOT news sources, they serve the advertisers and therefore they have EXTREME bias, if you want real news listen to NPR, watch the BBC there are many sources you can get your news from.

In my opinion one of the most important things in the world is to be aware of your current government’s politics, the past, and the ability to tell truth from fiction. In four years I will commission as a 2nd Lt in the US Army and knowing what’s going on, and the truth- not the truth according to FOX- is one of the things my SAI from JROTC couldn’t stress enough when heading into the Armed Forces.

Cheers

Look, not to really change the subject here, but at the start you guys said that we should torture them to get as much information as we can. There's no way that's gonna happen. The people that do this kind of stuff are Islamic fanatics. They WANT to die. According to their religion, the only way for them to go to heaven is to die in jihad- holy war. So really these terrorists aren't necessarily terrorist at all. They're just performing their religion, which is Islam, to go to their heaven. Now putting all religion, politics, and crap aside, there's no way any of these people are gonna give any information. They want to kill Americans, and that's all. And since Muslims are long time rivals with Christians, they see us, the U.S., as I guess you would say leader of all Christianity. So mabye your average Muslim isn't going to bomb a school or city, but these guys will. If you think about it, only a real, true, believer would pit years and years into the planning of into this. So that's why torture and interrogation won't do squat.