different between noob guns and hardcore guns?

so recently i have been thinking a lot lately. the difference between a noob gun or entry level AEG such as JG or CYMA as my examples. and the hardcore guns such as Tokyo Marui and KWA.
i didnt mean noob gun literally. just using as a word everyone could understand the concept of.
the reason for this is because some kid with some souped up rifle came up to me, looked at my CYMA AK47 and said very sarcastically "nice gun" i ended up shooting him mid game
i do realize that tokyo marui or kwa would have nicer internals and maybe shoot a little bit hotter. but is it really worth the extra 150 bucks and so on? it seems they are more of a novelity item than a practical item as you can just go and buy a decent entry AEG instead for only 115-150 bucks instead of 250-300 bucks that can do just about the same thing.
my thought is that kids ask their parents to buy them the most expensive gun out their so they don't seem like total noobs etc and then come and brag about it. while experienced players such as myself can use a cheaper alternative just as well if not better. or not using them at all (knife kill for the win)
just some of my thoughts. there are some more i can't think of at the moment but ill post later on.

What is your perspective? practical versus novelity? cheap versus expensive? and so on please vote and explain why you voted that way

Like you said it is mostly novalty right they may have better internals but (not shure here know little to nothing about upgrading) you could just upgrade yours for alot cheaper than there gun costed.

First and foremost for me it's the person behind the gun. If you're playing hard with a stock CYMA or E1 props to you, an MPEG still sprays plastic. I've owned and shot both types of guns so for me personally i think high-ends are worth it. They are a bit of a novelty for sure but the quality of everything is so much nicer then what you'd find on an MPEG (stock) and quality is something i look for over most other areas.

i have 2 kwa's but personally I can't afford to through another 200-300 out for a CQB gun,I just ordered a JG MTC from evike (got some stuff for the GB to make it tougher) in my mind JG and E1 aren't bad, especially if upgraded right

very true sniper. i think people are stupid and they try to put an m120 spring inside their gearbox. sure i can trust the internals of a JG or echo1 but at the point of adding an m120 spring just adds the risk. i think a good way to upgrade the internals isn't actually upgrading them at all unless you have cheap plastic gears for example. just a simple tightbore barrel seems to do the job or even shooting a heavier bb. it took me forever to add some thing to my JG m4 because it was so efficient before but now that i added a tightbore and am using heavier bb's its gonna hit hard and far very efficient killer. my CYMA ak47 on the other hand im not gonna touch because it just seems to do so well without any upgrades.

Generally speaking, more expensive base guns have greater durability, longevity, stock performance, and are easier to upgrade. Taking apart a $150 AK and a $400 AR are completely different experiences. To me, durability, upgradability, and internal longevity are worth the extra cost.

I, for one, don't flaunt my gun. If people want to admire it I'll show it to them, but it's not in my nature to be boastful. Pride comes before the fall, as they say. People who like to show off their gun and put down players with less expensive guns are simply demonstrating a lack of understanding. The gun does not make the player. A less powerful gun takes more skill to use effectively.

You guys have made good points the main reason I voted noob gun was because overall it is cheaper. But as you guys said I forgot all about the quality and duribilty of internals because I know close to nothing about them.

im replacing the piston head, piston, bushings and spring in the MTC
Last teammate with it let a paintballer borrow it and he destroyed the piston, piston head and bushings, which we then found out were plastic even though we thought "metal gearbox" lol
our tech/team lead was like " holy frick dude" as he opened up the gun
rule of story
don't LET PAINTBALLERS/NOOBS BORROW GUNS lol

I voted for the "hard-core guns"
Cause.... First the quality is better and you can upgrade them and change the look of them.
I'm not just getting a expensive gun to brag to my friends and say "IN YOUR FACE!"
I get them cause i like the look, feel and quality.
I have a CYMA M14 Scom which is a very very good gun (since i only bought it for about $120)
so ya.... it doesn't really matter what gun you have... just depends on how good the player is!

Thats my appinoin

Omega Lambda wrote:

Generally speaking, more expensive base guns have greater durability, longevity, stock performance, and are easier to upgrade. Taking apart a $150 AK and a $400 AR are completely different experiences. To me, durability, upgradability, and internal longevity are worth the extra cost.

I, for one, don't flaunt my gun. If people want to admire it I'll show it to them, but it's not in my nature to be boastful. Pride comes before the fall, as they say. People who like to show off their gun and put down players with less expensive guns are simply demonstrating a lack of understanding. The gun does not make the player. A less powerful gun takes more skill to use effectively.

I couldnt have put it better.
Performance wise compare a CA or TM rifle to some of the others and you will get much more constant groupings, the rifles will last longer and can handle more damage. Many players seem to think the full metal offered by the other brands somehow make them superior to CA, TM ect..they don't, what they don't realize is that these metal rifles are made from cheap chinese pot metal and are very easy to smash, easier in many cases then the composetes offered by the higher class weapons

these are all very good explanations and answers guys keep them coming
@zane i don't buy guns based on metal or not. some metal is ok. but i would assume just like anything else with anything full metal, body gearbox etc, and under 150 is probably not worth it. my guns are mostly all high quality abs plastic or some type of polymer plastic

@omega
true the gun doesnt make the player
for example last practice had a kid with only a crossman c11 airmag (is that the right name?)
he had taken cover as the skirmish at end of practice started, I came around the corner with my KWA sr12 grenadier not expecting a tango to be setup already when out of NOWHERE he pops up and bam im out lol

sniper_32 wrote:

im replacing the piston head, piston, bushings and spring in the MTC
Last teammate with it let a paintballer borrow it and he destroyed the piston, piston head and bushings, which we then found out were plastic even though we thought "metal gearbox" lol
our tech/team lead was like " holy frick dude" as he opened up the gun
rule of story
don't LET PAINTBALLERS/NOOBS BORROW GUNS lol

I would have to agree.... Me personally, i wouldn't give a "New player" a expensive gun cause they havn't figured out how to take care of them, and don't know how to use them properly.
EXSAMPLE: I was out airsofting with about 20 guys, and this new guy comes up (This was a B-Day party for one of my friends, so any one could come)
the "newguy" didn't own a airsoft gun of his own, so a experienced player let him use one of his $250 M16.
Well first off the new guy didn't have any other experience with the rifles so, at first he was doing ok but when we were standing listening to what the rules and stuff were for the game.
He drops the gun and the M16's barrel lands straight in a cowpie! I was all like "OH SHOOT!!!" but it didn't get in the inner barrel thankfully!
But through out the day the gun started to get worn from inproper use

I was going to stay out of this discussion because I'm semi-biased because I started playing at MilSim games before good clones(e1, D-Boys etc). This being said, I did purchase a clone AEG(E1 G36 variant) and it serve(d/s) its purpose. Things I noticed though.

1: My friends stock CA G36 out performed it in ROF and Range, but not FPS. Meaning it is a more efficient AEG. Also, stock my E1 was poorly shimmed, I had it re shimmed and replaced the bushings. I'm also installing some stock TM parts, specifically a piston, spring, gears, and systema spring guide. This will lower the FPS to about 270-300, but it will have a faster ROF and run much smoother. Therefor my vote for internals and internal efficiency goes to the higher end AEG's. Yes your echo 1 may have 50 more FPS and a high speed motor, unfortunately this is not the only thing that a good reliable AEG needs.

2: The externals on the E1 was lacking even when compared to a TM G36c. I have found the same thing to be true about E1 M4's and TM M4's. They are both plastic body's, but the E1's is not as well constructed. So from my personal experiences, clones have crappier externals. This is a make or break factor for me, as I prefer to not have to think about breaking my AEG's every time I dive for cover or slip down a hill.

3: Everyone thinks that a high end AEG will make you a Don't use the Lord's name in vain.. This is 100% not true. Yes it performs better, but if you cannot use teamwork with other players you aren't going to help the progression of your side/team AT ALL. I have seen people show up to an open play with Walmart springers and firepower LPEGS and make more of a difference than kids with KWA's or Echo 1's. Granted this is usually not the case, and it is the only time I have seen people show up with wally world gear, but it still proves a point.

4: After my experiences with the echo(I had to change my playing style, and it broke down a few times) I have returned to using/buying higher end AEG's. Even if they are used... I just cannot express the difference in quality of the two systems. To an untrained eye the echo 1 is going to look just as good as a TM, but its not actually true. E1's and JG's are OK, yes they can KEEP UP with some of the higher end guns, but they do not outclass them IMO in any way.

TL;DR: High end AEG's are obviously made better and perform better. However as everyone has said, the gun does not make the player. Although it certainly helps to have a high performance rifle compared to a stock MPEG.

sticks

NoHate, I pay the extra $150 so I don't have to go through what you went through with your JG MP5.

Well, kids are spoiled, my parents say if I want something I pay for it!
So E1 and CYMA are good enough for me!

I am going to end this right here. "Gun never makes the player"

Creed769 wrote:

Well, kids are spoiled, my parents say if I want something I pay for it!
So E1 and CYMA are good enough for me!

Same here, so far I have payed for everything in my airsoft career. Including TM M4, CA M4, E1 G36, mags and batts for all of them, real EI RRSV, Pantac 1961a, KA PACA... I could go on. Point is just because someone has nice stuff doesn't mean they had their parents buy it for them.

LW, I do believe the topic was not about if a certain AEG makes a player better, but mor eof why we pay more for TM's and CA's than we do for E1's and JG's. At least that's how I interpreted it.

sticks

In my personal opinion, JG's and E1's and other clones can last awhile if taken care of and certain parts are upgraded for example JG MTC I ordered, added a new piston w/ metal teether , a silent shock absorbing piston head, and metal bushings (after learning the aftermath of a teamates MTC going out)

well the basic concept of this conversation was why pay more for something that can do the same thing? its kind of like buying a ferrari over a toyota. they do the same thing. basically about cost vs. efficiency and how it all factors. a more costly gun is this efficient etc.

Time for me to put my two cents in.....

I feel that the extra money invested in a gun will pay off in the long run. I played with 50 dollar walmart guns for 2 years, most often they ran on double A batteries (AA).
Once i got out of the backyard, i stepped it up with the quality of my gun. Granted, it was just a WELL M4A1, but I could hold my own. Now, three years after purchasing the WELL, i am purchasing a KWA G36C. Not because i want a super expensive rub-it-in-your-face gun, but because I feel that the extra cost up front is worth the durability of the weapon.

On an unrelated note, I noticed that people were talking about metal/nonmetal. The G36C is a polymer gun in realsteel, so is the same way in airsoft. Same with a P90, not metal. I feel that the materials the gun is made of should not be metal if the gun isn't metal in realsteel

I soooo wanted to stay out of this, but.....................

First all AS Replicas aside from TM are clones !! Thats right, Tragic(Classic) Army, (I) (C)an´t
(S)tand this gun, SYSTEMA, KWA and on and on and on, are all CLONES.

The key to investing in a new gun is to do the research and check to see if the gun you can afford is going to fit into your particular stye and gameing oppertunities.

NOOB Gun ??? No Such Animal ! everybody has to start somewhere, and some want to start slowly.
Think about this, your new to AS, like how it looks and sounds, the excitement of watching the others play really tickles your fancy!, so what do you do ?? Go out and drop a Grand on top of the line Gear, Uniforms, Radio, Boots, Gloves, Knee Protectors, Ballistic Glasses, RuckSack, Sleeping Bag, MRE´s, Cammo, Actualy I don´t think a Grand will even cover it all, but for the sake of arguement lets keep going, shall we. So now the beginner has an awsome load out but no Gun, so he drops another 1000 to 2000 on a `` NAME ´´ gun, to include all the Tuning parts, Add-ons, Upgrades, Magazines, Batteries his heart could ever wish for.
Well look at that, we know have one of the best equiped players on the field, ready for Bear !! Only problem is, there are no Bears in his friends back yard !! or he goes to his First MIL-SIM and finds out that it is most definatly not for him. Hahahahaha Sux to be you !! Dude !!!

then again................

He might have gone a different route, stayed Low-Key, did the research, found out that a D-Boys would do just fine and even better with a minimal of upgrades and modifications, invested in a Modest but functional Kit, nothing Fancy, just something to drag his stuff around in, instead of useing just pants pockets. His Set-up makes him a force to be reckoned with when banging around with his friends and due to his style of Play he can even hold his own at large Games and Events. Not only did he does he enjoy the game, he didn´t have to take out a loan to start playing.

Others have said it and I´m going to back them up,
The Gun Does Not Make The PLAYER !!!

Yes, there are differences in the Quality of worksmanship in the Higher end guns when comparing them to low end,
Yes, there is a difference in the internal quality of parts,
Yes, the lower end guns do have the tendancy to develop problems before established Brand Name guns,
Yes, on average, the Higher end guns can withstand quite a bit more abuse,

but guess what, it also costs a bucket load more cash to repair them when things do go south, and if you should ever really trash one, ít hurts like the devil to look at your destroyed `` Baby´´, and the second thing to go through your head is `` Wonder how much I can Salvage ? ´´.

This goes to all the Players using High-End AS Replicas, be Honest, no Fibbing, No Macho Crap,
Doesn´t it just `` Burn your Onions´´, when you get eaten by a player ´who is using a mid to low level gun ? But you don´t get tweaked at the opposing player, you get Tweaked with YOURSELF !!

I Do !!!
``S:O:B !!! How in the name of all things good and evil did I let that Lil B**tard get me !!!????´´
usually I congratulate the shooter and continue to cuss myself out

Somehow I got off track, but this thread goes hand in hand with something that I am putting together for the Forum, Reviews and Comparrisons, some in direct competition with each other, ie. 2 makers of the K-98, (1 High-End, the other Low-end ), all I will say is that the results knocked me back, one of them should be a door prize, it should be against the law to charge money for this paperweight.

@slob212

Well said!

slob212 wrote:

This goes to all the Players using High-End AS Replicas, be Honest, no Fibbing, No Macho Crap,
Doesn´t it just `` Burn your Onions´´, when you get eaten by a player ´who is using a mid to low level gun ? But you don´t get tweaked at the opposing player, you get Tweaked with YOURSELF !!

I Do !!!
``S:O:B !!! How in the name of all things good and evil did I let that Lil B**tard get me !!!????´´
usually I congratulate the shooter and continue to cuss myself out

I may have a high-end but i'll be first to congratulate someone for good shot at me. What you reminds me of last time i played a got hit at range, in the head, while on the run by a guy with an E1 AUG. While i was shocked that happened (head shot on the move) it was an amazing shot and i told him so, no pride lost.

I will admit though i brag about having a high-end with my friends who mostly still have MPEGS. But that's just for fun and they know i'm just joking around and probably try harder to get me out for it which is great.

Honestly, I'm on the fence here. I think every player should have a "noob" gun for a back up, and a "hardcore" gun as a primary. I will not be getting rid of my JG G36C when I purchase my WE AFC M16A3 (at least, I'm almost certain I won't).

Think about it like this: Say you're on the field, playing with your "highend" gun, when something goes FUBAR in it, or you trip and break your fall with your pretty little "highend". What are you gonna do now? Go home and cry? No, pull out the JG. Oohrah, you can play again. Just the way I see it though

edit: Also, I have had to pay for all my airsofting stuff myself