Update: LUAV Project

Then it wouldnt matter if its a UAV or a Helicopter.

AHHHH theres no point in arguing and i don't get what LW is trying to say, and theres no point of having a loud sieren if it's for airsoft then your going to be low enough to the ground ull spot a human figure so either way no point

lonesniper24 wrote:

AHHHH theres no point in arguing and i don't get what LW is trying to say, and theres no point of having a loud sieren if it's for airsoft then your going to be low enough to the ground ull spot a human figure so either way no point

No mate, not for airsoft

I agree with LW...a "siren" would be quite pointless. If you are in a downed aircraft with an ELT, you'd typically expect recovery teams to have been notified and taking action (although with the US's non-existant ELT satellite grid...finding you is another matter). I think an "alert" system onboard a survey UAV would be a bit redundant.

Once you get money you could base your design of the RQ-7, only drone that the FAA has permited in civilian airspace....some certificate thingy

Zane wrote:

Once you get money you could base your design of the RQ-7, only drone that the FAA has permited in civilian airspace....some certificate thingy

I've been looking at the RQ-7 alot, but it sortof crosses the line between Tier 1 and Tier 2-3 systems.

-Tier 1 being squad-deployed (RQ-11 "Raven" and other small UAV)
-Tier 2-3 being battalion/company deployed systems (RQ-7, RQ-5, etc.).

At this point I see a first tier project to be more versatile at this point, but definitely...a Tier 2 system may be a future project. Really, any higher than tier 1 would prove difficult due to FAA regulations...which are likely to stiffen in the coming years. Certifications are really only available for commercial "photography" ROVs

Yeah my reason for specificly pointing out the RQ7 is, as I said, it's the only UAV that the FAA has given permission to operate in civilian airspace due to its reliability. What I don't get is why UAV's don't fall under the same regulation as ultralights, sure theres a altitude cap but realy with a UAV you don't need to go that high...ah well.

Zane wrote:

Yeah my reason for specificly pointing out the RQ7 is, as I said, it's the only UAV that the FAA has given permission to operate in civilian airspace due to its reliability. What I don't get is why UAV's don't fall under the same regulation as ultralights, sure theres a altitude cap but realy with a UAV you don't need to go that high...ah well.

Ya I think all of the ROV community is wondering the same thing

Autonomous flight restrictions are also something to watch right now.
It's really only taken off in the private/amateur sector in the last 10-15 years...so the FAA really hasn't had time to collaborate with private ROV'ers to come up with fair restrictions. They pretty much just put out "suggestions".

Honestly, I don't think anyones going to have problems with an amateur (a teenager, for that matter) designing, building, and operating a DIY ROV as long as I follow the guidelines set by the FAA for RC planes. Its only a drone if you call if a drone When you come down to it...I'm controlling a craft via radio...so technically I can classify it as a consumer RC craft, even if it's loaded with UAV-esque video and flight controller systems


Off topic:
My publications supervisor showed me some possible airframes for micro UAV applications that are due to be on the market in the coming months (or are already out)...
AR.Drone helicopter controllable by iPhone
"Dragonfly"

Ok...

I think I've been going about this all the wrong way.

After talking to a few people with ROV projects based off the MX EasyStar...I've found that using a side-facing camera for survey may actually be more practical than a pan/tilt swivel camera. I took a closer look at the Raven design and it too just has a side-facing nose camera...then a forward facing (slightly downward angled) cam for navigation. I think thats where I'm going. Autonomous flight would be nice (and rather cheap) but ya know if I'm just doing a Tier 1 system, I don't think I need it. Save that for future Tier 2 projects

I believe I've just shaved a good $200 off the project price tag.
I'm going to pick up a Firebird Freedom ($70 RTF) just so I can have a smaller system to test electronics on before throwing it into the $200 Multiplex (hey you never know, the Firebird might prove to be the better platform *sarcasm*).

Example of side-facing camera on Multiplex. In the video, 0:33-0:42 and 4:12-4:30 demonstrate the concept perfectly:

And the fact that it was taken with a Fuji FinePix F30 shows the amazing lift capability!

AeroVironment "Raven" (inspiration for my design)






And hey, with the Firebird im gunna pick up...I can always do something fun with it...like THIS!!!

Nice. So you would orbit a target area, rather than fly over it. And it seems that programming a circular flight path would be easier than a a grid pattern. I have no experience with UAVs, so this is all my very uninformed opinion.

br55ftw wrote:

Nice. So you would orbit a target area, rather than fly over it. And it seems that programming a circular flight path would be easier than a a grid pattern. I have no experience with UAVs, so this is all my very uninformed opinion.

Yes and no.

Yes, my design will orbit an area to an extent...
No, circular flight paths are harder because flight paths are set with straight waypoints, not curves...

Either way, it can be done...but it's a bit harder and it takes up alot of memory trying to set a bunch of waypoints for an orbit.

Still am not 100% sure on camera placement, so ya never know.



ArduPilot allows for at least 200 waypoints...which is probably more than enough for my applications.

I'd MUCH rather have a pilot in control at all times...but the range on my radios aren't far enough to allow the UAV to fly more than a few miles away. Once autopilot is engaged, I will have no control over the aircraft until it returns to within radio range. So I'll be letting a $600+ piece of equipment fly away from me...with no chance of getting it back if the autopilot fails.

As the picture suggests, I can have the craft flying MILES from my location...far from any hope of regaining control should a problem arise.

Now I just need a video transmiting system that can relay me the images over that distance...I may actually go with Fast Scan TV, as Zane suggested. We shall see.

My dream is to figure out how to use the Xbox controller to control flight and cameras...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azN-bbawlLI&feature=player_embedded#

Shows how much I know.

That would be great, and helpful. Also, it would make the system easier to use for you and others.

Can you set a default waypoint or an emergency waypoint.......or maybe even have it return to you no matter where you are?

Insane Mercc wrote:

Can you set a default waypoint or an emergency waypoint.......or maybe even have it return to you no matter where you are?

Ya there is an addon called "Failsafe"...but it only works if I'm using a radio to control it. Failsafe automaticallly initiates RTH codes to return it to the first GPS waypoint (home) if it leaves radio range. But that wont work for me because the autopilot is controlling the craft well outside of radio range already. And theres no way for me to initiate the code over a distance outside of radio range.

what if you what about controlling it via cell phone...don't know if its possible but maybe..you could also try to use HAM repeaters to extend your range

Zane wrote:

what if you what about controlling it via cell phone...don't know if its possible but maybe..you could also try to use HAM repeaters to extend your range

Cell phone, eh?...that might be an option.
I'm talking to some people at www.diydrones.com right now about using HAM...hopefully I get some info.

PROJECT UPDATE:
Yesterday I took the EZstar for a spin and had a nasty fly-away...
My reciever decided it wasn't going to work and the EZ got about 2 miles away before crashing in someone's backyard.
The remarkable thing was...there was absolutely no damage...
I had to wait outside the house for about an hour until the homeowner got home and let me get my plane.
What an amazing exerience and a great display of the EZ's ruggedness.

RQ-11 Raven UAV
Wing Span: 4 ft 3 in (130 cm)
Length: 3 ft 7 in (109 cm)
Weight: 4.2 lb
Cruising speed 60 mph
Range: 6.2 miles (10 km)
Endurance approx. 80 min
Cost: $35,000 for plane; $250,000 for whole system

MX EasyStar "UAV"
Wing Span: 54" (1372mm)
Length: 34" (864mm)
Weight: 1.8 lb
Cruising speed: 25-45 mph
Range: 2 miles RC; 20+ autonomous
Endurance approx. 45 min
Cost: $150 for plane; $600 for whole system

Does anyone else see a problem with that picture?!?!?

Spl. Durkee wrote:

RQ-11 Raven UAV
Wing Span: 4 ft 3 in (130 cm)
Length: 3 ft 7 in (109 cm)
Weight: 4.2 lb
Cruising speed 60 mph
Range: 6.2 miles (10 km)
Endurance approx. 80 min
Cost: $35,000 for plane; $250,000 for whole system

MX EasyStar "UAV"
Wing Span: 54" (1372mm)
Length: 34" (864mm)
Weight: 1.8 lb
Cruising speed: 25-45 mph
Range: 2 miles RC; 20+ autonomous
Endurance approx. 45 min
Cost: $150 for plane; $600 for whole system

Does anyone else see a problem with that picture?!?!?

The fact that the easy star offers 50% approximate of that performance, is lighter. While the Raven is 99% more

well why don't you just use something that is proven in the field of drones? i think i know what would work, not out yet(this guy is awesome and has inside deals) but he shows you how he sets it up and you can get the camera turret to rotate if you have a fully rotating servo. of course that's going extreme with an 8 foot wingspan but the arf kit will run you $139.95 that's the pre order special...servos you will have along with a radio system from your easystar so all you will need 40 for a bigger brushless + BESC combo and your flight system, Dave says it's extremely stable in flight and great for even still shots. hope that's what you're looking for
The first link is the product pred from nitroplanes and 2,3 and 4 are reviews from Dave Herbert. He's been around since RC came out as a hobby and was the first person to fly to heli's at once, he knows his stuff.
http://www.nitroplanes.com/mq9.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WO9DqJdnro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6M2Ckuoor8&feature=fvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-x49FwU5Y
EDIT: Ohhh and i found this smaller kit from nitroplanes as well but it's only 74 as an arf add 30 for a brushless + besc combo you could have it flying for just over 100 doll hairs
http://www.nitroplanes.com/4eluavrqprra.html

Nnamkied wrote:

well why don't you just use something that is proven in the field of drones? i think i know what would work, not out yet(this guy is awesome and has inside deals) but he shows you how he sets it up and you can get the camera turret to rotate if you have a fully rotating servo. of course that's going extreme with an 8 foot wingspan but the arf kit will run you $139.95 that's the pre order special...servos you will have along with a radio system from your easystar so all you will need 40 for a bigger brushless + BESC combo and your flight system, Dave says it's extremely stable in flight and great for even still shots. hope that's what you're looking for
The first link is the product pred from nitroplanes and 2,3 and 4 are reviews from Dave Herbert. He's been around since RC came out as a hobby and was the first person to fly to heli's at once, he knows his stuff.
http://www.nitroplanes.com/mq9.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WO9DqJdnro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6M2Ckuoor8&feature=fvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-x49FwU5Y
EDIT: Ohhh and i found this smaller kit from nitroplanes as well but it's only 74 as an arf add 30 for a brushless + besc combo you could have it flying for just over 100 doll hairs
http://www.nitroplanes.com/4eluavrqprra.html

No no no...those are certainly not worth the money.

The EasyStar has certain flight characteristics not found in any other model airplane.

Its also built from high fidelity foam...has an unusually spacious interior...and is simply the best there is for off-the-shelf drones.
(Not my own opinion, the opinion of most of the DIY-UAV and FPV community)

The predator replicas you linked me to are mostly balsa and low-end plastic...certainly not built to stand up to field deployment.
Basically, they're meant to take-off from the ground...the EasyStar can be hand-deployed.

Plus, I'm not looking to replicate a Tier 2 ROV...only a squad-deployed Tier 1.
Predators are not squad-deployable, so I'm not going to make a squad-deployable replica of one...thats just not my thing.

I get where you're coming from, though.
I actually looked at those when I first got the idea to make my drone...but was quickly told not to go that route by many people.
And I'm glad I got my EZ Star.

It's not my style to just buy something that someone else made...

I'm modelling after the RQ-11 Raven...which doesnt have pan/tilt camera.
If anything I'd go with one of these or this...but again, stil cannot match the EasyStar's stock flight performance. They're ARF kits...but still.

Well I haven't been updating you guys enough...so here ya go:

This was my latest test of the ArduPilot GPS/EARTH interface. Flown with a cheapo 2.4 gHz camera...didnt record the flight because my camera doesnt have video in/out.
I'm currently waiting for some extra $$$ before I purchase the other (better) camera system.


Kinda a cool interface because it updates on my computer screen almost instantly.
Was running from a laptop on the field to the East...flew over the high school to the West.

Heres a screen capture. The video is really low quality so I wont post it. Its only like 200x300 resolution
Taken over the baseball field from an altitude of approximately 120 ft. Its enough to pick out people, but nowhere near the quality of the camera's I'm going to be buying.

Wow thats nice...makes me want to do it o0

..Just looked at the EZ..pretty cheap..think I might seriously consider this.
Do you use some sort of separate tracking system in case it goes down? (not powered by the plane, seperate system) Maybe some sort of device that pings it's location every few mins?

Also, is there some sort of programming to handle adverse weather? (auto correct in wind gusts ect)

....but heh this is probly going to be my camera


...And were do you get the sofware..my google skills must suck but all I get is the hardware that tells me about the free open source software it uses....and no links.

oh sorry, i was being ignorant on the part about being hand launched, and you're expecting hard landings and rough handeling, well in that case the easystar looks like a good platform, if it's not working with all the weight on there and is just getting to heavy for the frame size you could go 125% it or even 150% for more lift and fuselage room. i know some systems where you half the wing and put carbon spars that attach the wing halves so you have a small package then you take the wing out and snap it together and you have a big platform to fly. And Zane what is that plane? it kinda looks like one of those kid gliders you can get but i deffinatly see a servo pushrod in there, it looks fun though. i have that same camera and it's awesome

that is the EZ Star lol.

But about how much would you say the total cost is? I already have several 8 channal+ radios from dads days of flying these..servos as well. So the cost I see is plane, navigation system, software, upgraded motor, battery..hmhm thats it I think? Anything im missing?

As a side earlier we talked about the getting it back in range, and earlier I mentioned somthing about a cell phone...I'm thinking that perhpas having some sort of reciever, and if the plane gets messed up somhow I call, and that reciever activates the "home" function. does it make sense?..if not ill try to explain better.

Zane wrote:

that is the EZ Star lol.

But about how much would you say the total cost is? I already have several 8 channal+ radios from dads days of flying these..servos as well. So the cost I see is plane, navigation system, software, upgraded motor, battery..hmhm thats it I think? Anything im missing?

As a side earlier we talked about the getting it back in range, and earlier I mentioned somthing about a cell phone...I'm thinking that perhpas having some sort of reciever, and if the plane gets messed up somhow I call, and that reciever activates the "home" function. does it make sense?..if not ill try to explain better.

Total cost...depends.
You can do alot with just $300.

Plane itself is $200 RTF...but since you already have radio equipment and servos, you could purchase an ARF kit for under $90.

Video Systems:
So from there you make the choice:
Live streaming or DVR.

Live video is about $250 for the whole radio system + camera.
Best place to buy is RangeVideo (.com).

DVR is much cheaper. Maximum of $120 depending on what kind of quality.
Good option is FlyCam2.

Thermopile-based autopilots:
First off you need thermopiles. Those are sensors that watch for change in pitch/roll.
Then get an autopilot to suit.

■AttoPilot ($800): Very powerful commercial autopilot, closed source

■ArduPilot ($24.95 + approximately $180 in additional parts such as GPS module and sensors): Arduino-based open source autopilot.
Easy to expand and modify, but requires some soldering

■Paparazzi ($425): Powerful, but somewhat hard to use open source autopilot. Requires Linux and some programming skills.

From there, its all DIY and imagination.

http://www.gliffy.com/publish/1646774/