General question about Mpegs VS. High-end guns

I have a question for you all. What is the difference between an mpeg (mid-grade) gun like, for example, an Echo 1 g36c, versus a high-end version, like a Classic Army G36c? I'm kind of new to airsoft so I'm kind of confused about stuff. They're both made practically of the same thing, except the higher-end guns come with a little better quality internals. Quite often the externals are almost identical with possible seam lines/slightly more plastic parts on mpeg. But the better quality internals are almost always swapped out anyway! So if the only major difference between mid-grade and high-end guns is the internals, but when you pay $200 more for the "nicer" gun and you end up upgrading all the internals anyway, what's the point of paying the extra money? I just don't get why you pay so much more for these high-end guns like CA, ICS, TM, and then you get under-par performance (bad range, low shooting speeds) with the stock gun. Can someone explain to me why it's worth paying the extra money? Thanks!

Echo 1 G36C:


Classic Army G36C:


Look similar?

I have 2 Echo 1 guns and 1 CA36c... the CA36c hands down is an all around better replica. The difference between Mpeg and High end is that a lot of times the mechbox's themselves are made stronger than the cheaper versions, which allows them to last longer. They also tend to have much more precision when it comes to internals. I have also noticed that the screws that Echo 1 use must be a little lower quality than CA. I have taken my M14 apart a lot, but some of the screws are just getting warn down and are easy to strip out if you arent careful. The CA seems to have nice heavy duty screws that have yet to show much wear.
The obvious thing is that most of the E1 replica's use a lot of plastic where CA/ICS use metal. For instance the MP5/M4/and several other models have plastic recievers where CA/ICS have metal recievers. While this saves weight it could cut down on durability.
Also, if you have ever taken apart an Echo 1 M4 and taken apart an ICS M4 you would notice a huge difference as I learned this weekend. If you want my honest opinion, ICS has the best gearbox design with it being a "split" gearbox... very easy to work on. Also, the Echo 1 barrel was extremely stubborn trying to get it out of the outer barrel. It was even harder getting a tightbore in the outerbarrel though. This was the same thing I noticed with my E1 M14... the stock barrel was pretty tight but the tightbore didnt want to go in. Pull apart my CA or an ICS/TM and the parts seem to slide right in and out without much of a problem. My M14 had a problem with the trigger switch. It doesnt use a tappet plate like most replica's instead it just has a simple switch device and it took me a while to figure out why it wouldnt shoot. I finally decided to file down the connectors to see if maybe it wasnt making a good contact point... which seemed to solve the problem. However, you will find a lot of E1 owners complain about their replica's not firing anymore. That is generally the problem. The wiring seems to be of much higher quality on CA models compared to E1 as well.
Another problem I ran into with my M14 was that the website said it was a Ver. 7 gearbox but after I ordered a set of gears, tappet plate and air nozzle for a Marui Ver. 7 gerbox I found out that none of those parts work in the E1 mechbox. They actually used Ver. 2 parts in the Ver. 7 style gearbox... but didnt mention that anywhere on the website. So I was out about $70.
As far as my Echo 1's, they have pretty good performance and for the money they are a great mid level replica. Very realistic weight generally and offer very nice externals. The stock internals are definitely no where close to a high end replica... but that is why they cost less. I put a spare CA motor in my E1 AK and it definitely increased the rate of fire. The stock gears are generally pretty beefy for anything under 400fps.
Another small detail, the TM AK has a larger stock than the E1 AK, which allows a large style 9.6v to fit in the TM but not the E1. A PEQ battery fits pretty good though, so it isnt a big deal.
As you can see, there are little things that stand out for the higher end guns that the Mpegs generally lack. I really do like Echo 1 replica's though. I highly recommend them for all beginners. However, if you want extra performance and fine tuned replica's I would suggest spending a little more money and getting a CA/ICS/TM/Etc...

Yah they r definatly made better, and look a lot more like the real one. If my current WELL sniper breaks, I'm gonna invest into a TM sniper, which full up graded can be all around better than any clones.

I agree with Seabass, because the Echo1 M4 he is talking about is mine. =) We had such a hard time installing the barrel. (2 hours) Once everything was in the gun performed great, just a pain for a simple job.

Just thought that I would add, I have heard from a lot of people that the Echo 1 G36c is a great replica. One of the best Echo 1's actually... so if you are thinking about getting one, I am sure you would be very happy with it overall. The thing I like about my CA36c is how solid it feels compared to some replica's. It feels somewhat indestructable... dont get me wrong I wouldnt throw it off of a building or anything, but it just feels good. I would imagine the Echo 1 exterior is probably just as strong as the CA.

ACE- It did take awhile, but it was rewarding in the end watching it shoot nice and straight. Cant wait to see it this weekend at practice. I am sure you will notice a big difference in accuracy and maybe some extra range as well. Your M4 impressed me shooting around 345 FPS on the chrono... very cool.

I didn't expect such good answers. No offense
Thanks a lot everyone at Airsoft Forum 2.0 for your help. I'm really excited to hear that the middle-grade guns can still be quality, but that if I do buy a more expensive one, I won't be wasting my money. Thank you for clarifying!

If anyone else has anything to add. Please do!

*And just so you know, You guys got me interested in the G36C now. Thanks a lot

Actually, I just ordered an Echo 1 G36C. And Seabass has a CA. We should be able to give you a fairly detailed comparison if I get it in time for our Saturday practice.
Kind of the perfect timing for your question actually.
Just let me know us know if you are interested and we will be sure to compare them really well for you aside from shooting them at eachother.

Of course, my CA is shooting around 392fps with .2's, has about twice as long of a barrel as a stock G36 and also has a high performance motor... so they shouldnt shoot very similar.

We can give you an internal/external comparison however, along with a good review of the Echo 1 version which Mr. Roamer I am sure is excited to provide to the forum.

Cant wait to see it at practice (crossing fingers).

I would like to know the difference if you are willing to compare the 2. I'm not very sure I have the $ to pay for the classic army, but if its good enough, I'll think about it. Thanks.

Owning both an Echo 1 AK and a CA36c, I can honestly say you would not be making a mistake going with the Echo 1. It will be a very good replica for the money. If you want it to perform like the CA, you will have to put a little money into it, which you will save about $90 by buying the Echo version instead. So get a tightbore(if you like the silencer look, get a 215mm silencer and a 455mm length tightbore, it is a perfect fit), a 9.6v battery, and down the road upgrade your gears and motor. It will perform very well with those upgrades.

Having said that, I wouldnt trade my CA36c for anything... including a Systema. It shoots amazing.

If you what a comparison of the Echo1 vs CA, go to youtube and search airsoft reports. The did a three part video on the comparison of G36C guns. Maybe that will help.

Ace wrote:

If you what a comparison of the Echo1 vs CA, go to youtube and search airsoft reports. The did a three part video on the comparison of G36C guns. Maybe that will help.

Good advice everyone, and good find Ace. I found those links you mentioned, very interesting (although I can't listen to them right now b/c my computer's sound is currently non-functioning).

Just to make it a bit easier, here are the links:

Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDj8EZmHT_0

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHH1QaJ_gzw

Part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoveKfg1thE

As for recommending one over the other. I can't make that judgment for you as I don't know enough about each gun. I do know that I've heard great things about both models though. I can vouch for Roamer, Seabass and Ace though - trust their advice

Yeah, I love the echo 1. I will be writing a review hopefully next week so stay tuned. The next time we play together we will compare what we like and dislike about them...

If you have any specific question why don't you just ask now!?! We will both respond, I am sure Seabass can recall the days when his G36C was just stock. Seriously, just ask a question and we'll respond to it. What better way to decide lol. I will check back later

Actually I cant... I ordered it upgraded with a PDI 150% spring, metal shims, Area 1000 piston head, metal cylinder head and a metal spring guide with ball bearing. = ) Before I even shot it, I had the Leapers red/green dot, vertical foregrip, King Arms 200mm silencer and 3 point sling on it. Not to mention I put the tightbore in it after I put about 200 shots through it in stock form. It has pretty much been the exact same since I bought it you could say.

No matter how you look at it, you will want to upgrade whatever you buy, so chances are it doesnt matter much which you choose. I do tend to like the wiring / trigger assembly's in CA's better than Echo 1's... but the Echo 1's cost almost half as much as the CA models, so you have to take that into account.
My Echo 1 AK with a Systema Magnum and Deep fire piston (titanium teeth) is crazy on a 9.6 volt battery. It makes the CA look slow. But at the same time, the CA is more accurate and has better range... so it evens out.

I had a little difficulty squeezing fps out of the Echo 1 M14 when I tried to build it into a semi auto sniper, so I am not 100% sure on the upgradeability of the Echo 1's as of right now. At first I put an M140 spring in it trying to get about 450fps, but didnt even come close. I even put an M150 spring (typically good for about 450-500fps) in it and only got about 410fps with a metal cylinder head, Area 1000 piston head, metal spring guide, Prometheus 650mm x 6.03mm tightbore, etc... all the mods that would help support it. It was kind of disappointing honestly... but that isnt to say that all Echo 1's respond to upgrades this way, I might have just had some bad luck. Thats why I put the M14 back to stock specs and am trying to sell it to a friend right now.

For a beginner I would recommend an Echo 1, they are solid performers out of the box and can definitely be a contender to Classic Army, Tokyo Marui, G&G, etc...
There is not doubt they are well constructed and in my opinion several models have better finishes than some of the more expensive replica's.
If the player wants that extra little bit of performance and doesnt mind spending the money I do recommend Classic Army as a great starting point. They are just well manufactured and use high quality components.

Thats just my 2 cents.

the Echo 1 X36C seems to be a little faster than the other Echo 1's. I say this from experience because I played with a M4 Commando for a long while before I bought my X36C. I think it would really benefit from an upgrade percision barrel so I would suggest that because I think you'll see a huge difference in the groupings (automatic) right away for a reletively cheap upgrade.
Otherwise, I haven't even chargered my battery for it yet. lol I used my friends battery when I shot it the other day... but I shot about 500 rounds through it. That brings me to another point that I am sure you are already aware of. With the 470 round Hi Cap included you will probably want to buy some Mid Cap mags if you plan to go to any tournaments. Reason being is that a lot of places are not allowing us to use a 470 round clip... which makes since. You can pick these up for pretty cheap.
I will be playing a lot with it next Saturday. I will post my final thoughts on it at that time.

Ok here we go.

This is just my thought.

You get what you pay for. Higher end guns are just that they are made with better componets and materials. for example my first ics mp5 was pure crud being made from cheap plastic and pot metal.

My new ics is made of aluminium and is solid and reliable (as long as I don't screw up again)

price difference is high but a gun made from stronger materials handles upgrades better then it's cheaper cousin.

I would only buy a cheaper gun If I was to replace all the mech box and the hop up unit. that is as long as the body is good, because that is in effect what you are paying for at this point.